Would like suggestions for low-end audiophile towers

[Jack N]

I’ve used mid-fi towers (Def Tech) for the last 16-18 years or so and would like to upgrade when my dedicated home theater/listening room is completed later this year. So I’m looking for suggestions on upper mid-range/low-end audiophile towers now so I know what dimensions I’ll need for the cabinetry that they’ll be housed in. I’d like to go back to true 3-way or 4-way traditional towers that are either ported or non-ported. If ported, I’d like the port to be front or down firing.

I’d like to keep the prices under $4500/pr., and power hungry/low ohm speakers won’t pose a problem.

Please list what other speakers you’ve auditioned besides the ones you’re suggesting.

FWIW - RBH won’t be considered because I’ve tried contacting them twice and was completely ignored both times so I’m taking my business elsewhere – Hence, this post.

If you know of someone looking for Def Tech towers, please steer him/her my way.

TIA.

 

[Swerd]

I’ve used mid-fi towers (Def Tech) for the last 16-18 years or so and would like to upgrade when my dedicated home theater/listening room is completed later this year. So I’m looking for suggestions on upper mid-range/low-end audiophile towers now so I know what dimensions I’ll need for the cabinetry that they’ll be housed in. I’d like to go back to true 3-way or 4-way traditional towers that are either ported or non-ported. If ported, I’d like the port to be front or down firing.

I’d like to keep the prices under $4500/pr., and power hungry/low ohm speakers won’t pose a problem.

Please list what other speakers you’ve auditioned besides the ones you’re suggesting.

I'm an unabashed Salk and Philharmonic Audio fanboy . Dennis Murphy owns Philharmonic Audio and designs nearly all the Salk speakers. They all share a similar sound across the midrange, while delivering more bass depth and greater sound detail as price goes up. In the under $4500/pair price range, I suggest you look into these:

Salk Song3 – a new 3-way design. It can be built with a port mounted on the front or the rear. Standard price is $2900/pair.

Salk SongTower – I've owned these for 9 years and love them. See my signature line for a link to my listening impressions of them. Standard price is $2000/pair. They also can be built with front ports.

There are several variations of the standard SongTower that include ribbon tweeters instead of the dome tweeter, or different metal alloy midwoofers instead of the standard paper/reed composition woofers. These (SongTower RT, SuperCharged SongTower, or Veracity ST) come at higher prices, but are still within your price range.

You should also consider the 3-way BMR Philharmonitor bookshelf speakers from Philharmonic Audio. It can be built with front ports, but it requires a somewhat taller cabinet.

I have listened to a wide variety of speakers in these price ranges ($2k to $5k), and in my opinion, nothing comes close.

 

[Steve81]

I’d like to keep the prices under $4500/pr., and power hungry/low ohm speakers won’t pose a problem.

How large is your room? What is it you're looking to achieve (i.e. a surround system capable of reaching THX reference level, a two channel rig for moderate listening levels, etc.)? Will you be using these speakers with a subwoofer?

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Gotta love it! $4.5k for pair of towers is "low-end" hahahaha
But srsly - do strongly consider Philharmonic/Salk
Only other speakers comes close are
a) Ascend Sierra Towers
b) Aperion Verus Grand Tower

 

[3db]

I would also seriously look at PSB Imagine T2, an equal contender to the Ascends, Aperion, and Salks.

 

[lovinthehd]

So you're not an "audiophile" if you have DefTec stuff, interesting

 

[Jack N]

Thank-you to those who have responded so far. I can assure you I will check out each one of your suggestions.

Steve81 – Room is roughly 13ft wide, 40ft long, and 8ft high or roughly 4,160 cubic feet. The room will double as a music listening room and a home theater so sound quality takes the number one spot. I’m not concerned about how loud it will play as most systems will play loud enough to damage hearing in a short amount of time. Yes, I will be using subs however I use them a little different than most people. For my own tastes, I like the bass frequencies that towers generate better than those generated by subs. They just seem to sound better for some reason. So I try to have the sub crossovers set as low as reasonably possible. That’s why I’ve always been a fan of very clean amps that have the power to deliver strong clear bass signals and still sound neutral. The less sub involvement the better as far as I’m concerned. That’s one reason why I want something other than Def Tech towers as I need to have the crossover point higher than I would like.

 

[ski2xblack]

Did I read the first post correctly, that you plan on putting the speakers inside some sort of entertainment center/cabinet? It would be a shame to buy rather expensive speakers and hamstring their performance by placing them into some sort of cubbyhole. Please clarify that point.

 

[Jack N]

Yes, you are correct. That's why I need to be very particular about the speakers' configuration. Obviously the bi-polar Def Techs would sound terrible. And anything with a rear firing port just wouldn't work either. The speakers will be behind doors that basically amount to a frame that holds grill cloth. What ever grill comes with the speakers won't be used. In this way, I wouldn't think the speakers' performance would be compromised. Most, if not all, of the speakers off-axis characteristics will remain intact. Make sense?

 

[rojo]

Yes, you are correct. That's why I need to be very particular about the speakers' configuration. Obviously the bi-polar Def Techs would sound terrible. And anything with a rear firing port just wouldn't work either. The speakers will be behind doors that basically amount to a frame that holds grill cloth. What ever grill comes with the speakers won't be used. In this way, I wouldn't think the speakers' performance would be compromised. Most, if not all, of the speakers off-axis characteristics will remain intact. Make sense?

Yeah, but we're skeptical that the effect you intend will be what actually happens. The refined sound you're looking for from $4500 speakers will be distorted by unintended reflections. Putting your speakers on the same plane as a wall will result in the wall acting as a baffle, reflecting waves that would normally travel behind the speaker and off at various other angles in a more traditional placement. You're essentially taking a masterfully tuned and refined speaker crossed over for a 12" (or so) baffle step compensation and throwing it into a 13-foot baffle. If your speakers are to be recessed back behind these cloth-draped frames, that's even worse. Just cup your hands around your mouth and listen to how the sound of your voice changes. Now imagine a closet cupped around a speaker.

Your intended placement is like yarn bombing a Michelangelo sculpture, or the Mona Lisa in Spandex.

If you really prefer the bass from towers over subwoofers, then scrap your placement idea and get yourself a pair of transmission line Phil 3's. They are +/- 2dB all the way down to 25Hz, so you might not even need a sub.

 

[ski2xblack]

Yeah...diffraction, inappropriate bsc...if you're considering Philharmonic, and you should, be sure to run the specifics of your intended placement by Dennis, he may have some ideas. One of his models intended for free standing placement is probably not the best solution.

 

[Jack N]

I have no reason to doubt what you guys are saying. If you could provide a link to something that would go into more detail that would be great, but for now I’ll take your word for it. So are you suggesting a different type of speaker, or are you saying I need a re-design of the room so that the speakers are free-standing?

 

[lovinthehd]

Might try this article.

Maybe consider architectural speakers depending on your cabinet/wall thing.

 

[rojo]

I have no reason to doubt what you guys are saying. If you could provide a link to something that would go into more detail that would be great, but for now I’ll take your word for it. So are you suggesting a different type of speaker, or are you saying I need a re-design of the room so that the speakers are free-standing?

Here are a few more intros to baffle step compensation and diffraction.

https://web.archive.org/web/20151117085916/http://www.salksound.com/wp/?p=135
https://trueaudio.com/st_diff1.htm
http://audiojudgement.com/speaker-baffle-design-and-diffraction/

I'm not sure what I'm recommending, to be honest. Can you upload some pics of your room to Imgur and copypaste the generated BB code links here?

 

[ski2xblack]

So are you suggesting a different type of speaker, or are you saying I need a re-design of the room so that the speakers are free-standing?

Either / or, yes. Dennis' speakers are really something else, so altering the plans toward a free standing arrangement would be my recommendation. If the speakers absolutely must be incorporated into the furniture or otherwise discreet, you'll have to plan accordingly.

The forum should come up with a clever suggestion or three. Off the top of my head I'm thinking of some of the home theaters that use false walls of speaker cloth and AT projection screens as ways to discreetly hide speakers without adversely affecting their sound. Tell us more about the room (multi use, or dedicated man-cave you can go crazy with), maybe some pics.

 

[Jack N]

Thanks for the links guys. I will read them.

As far as pics go, there's really nothing worth seeing yet. I've got a crude plan laying around here somewhere. I'll try to find it and get it posted tomorrow.

 

[slipperybidness]

I have no reason to doubt what you guys are saying. If you could provide a link to something that would go into more detail that would be great, but for now I’ll take your word for it. So are you suggesting a different type of speaker, or are you saying I need a re-design of the room so that the speakers are free-standing?

Reconsider your design and make it allow for free-standing speakers.

Or, if you must go with the cabinet idea, then discuss your goals with one of the custom speaker gurus (ie Salk or Dennis Murphy) and get them to set you straight.

 

[Jack N]

Sorry for the delay – I’ve been doing my homework.

I checked out all of the manufacturers that were suggested. The new Salk Song3 towers have caught my attention. I’ve never owned speakers with a ribbon tweeter before. Generally speaking, what type of characteristics to ribbons have vs dome?

I’ve read the articles about baffle and diffraction losses. I can see how putting speakers in an enclosed area would affect the sound, but my own personal feelings are that in my own particular plan it wouldn’t be affected by a large amount. I’ll be the first to admit I could be wrong on this so as you suggested I would like to get some feedback from design engineers to get a better idea of what to expect. Is the best way to contact Mr. Salk or Mr. Murphy through the company contact information or is there somewhere here on website that would work better?

 

[Dennis Murphy]

Sorry for the delay – I’ve been doing my homework.

I checked out all of the manufacturers that were suggested. The new Salk Song3 towers have caught my attention. I’ve never owned speakers with a ribbon tweeter before. Generally speaking, what type of characteristics to ribbons have vs dome?

I’ve read the articles about baffle and diffraction losses. I can see how putting speakers in an enclosed area would affect the sound, but my own personal feelings are that in my own particular plan it wouldn’t be affected by a large amount. I’ll be the first to admit I could be wrong on this so as you suggested I would like to get some feedback from design engineers to get a better idea of what to expect. Is the best way to contact Mr. Salk or Mr. Murphy through the company contact information or is there somewhere here on website that would work better?

I'm sure Jim would be happy to answer any questions you have--just write him at jim@salksound.com. And you can get me at info@philharmonicaudio.com

 

[lovinthehd]

Sorry for the delay – I’ve been doing my homework.

I checked out all of the manufacturers that were suggested. The new Salk Song3 towers have caught my attention. I’ve never owned speakers with a ribbon tweeter before. Generally speaking, what type of characteristics to ribbons have vs dome?

I’ve read the articles about baffle and diffraction losses. I can see how putting speakers in an enclosed area would affect the sound, but my own personal feelings are that in my own particular plan it wouldn’t be affected by a large amount. I’ll be the first to admit I could be wrong on this so as you suggested I would like to get some feedback from design engineers to get a better idea of what to expect. Is the best way to contact Mr. Salk or Mr. Murphy through the company contact information or is there somewhere here on website that would work better?

I'd also look at Ascend Acoustics' various speakers with Raal ribbon tweeters.... the Sierra 2, Sierra Tower with Raal and Horizon with Raal. Ask David Fabrikant, the owner/designer of Ascend for advice, he's awesome in responding to questions/issues; Dina in customer service is awesome, too. Yes, own quite a few Ascend speakers but no Raal equipped ones fwiw....