Mass shooting in Orlando - Politics

[jinjuku]

All I know is this:

No matter your affiliation if you don't have guns and explosives to come at me or a group of people with I'll take my chances.

 

[shadyJ]

This isn't a either/or situation where guns are to blame or Islam is to blame. It looks to me like fundamentalist Islam gave him the excuse and guns gave him the opportunity. From what little I read about him, it looks like he was motivated by an extreme homophobia, and it looks to me like that is the root cause. I think fundamentalist Islam legitimized his neurosis and the guns made his plans easy, but he may well have found some other belief which condoned his scheme and he could have done it with home made bombs and still caused a lot of death and destruction. I don't think this absolutely must be made a partisan debate, although I suppose that is inevitable. ISIS should be destroyed, and sketchy characters should not have easy access to guns.

 

[jinjuku]

Technology has surpassed the laws.
Some how I don't think the Constitution's "right to bear arms" considered the type of arms that would allow a single person to kill 50 people and injure 53 more in a single event despite there being many (unarmed) people available to fight him.
I doubt he would have ever initiated this if he could only use a six-shooter.
Modern weapons put too much firepower in one person's hands!

The 2nd amendment is a provision for the populace to stand up to a government gone tyrannical. At the time it was written the standard arms available to the populace was pretty much what standing military around the world had.

It's an internal balance of power when something has gone horribly wrong

 

[Chu Gai]

Alright folks, lets try to keep this to acknowledging the tragedy that occurred versus injecting the politics of guns and Islam into the thread. Regardless of your political leanings, this kind of event shouldn't happen, period. Very sad indeed.

Yes, it shouldn't have happened. In line with what you said, acknowledging the tragedy, it seems you've got more cleaning up to do.

 

[herbu]

acknowledging the tragedy

My heart breaks for the victims. I can't imagine how they must feel to hear the resulting debate about guns and politics. And I suppose our enemies rejoice watching us talk about who or what to blame. This was an attack in a war that has been publicly declared on us. The shooter proclaimed it and his organization has taken credit.

Until we recognize our enemy, call them what they are and commit to their defeat, we will see horrors like Orlando continue. I weep for the families, and pray it never happens to one of us.

 

[GO-NAD!]

I'm sure it'll come out eventually, but I just don't understand how he was able to shoot over 100 people without being tackled by somebody. Regardless, it's a sad day for all...well, except for any homophobes out there.

 

[Chu Gai]

Today, it's the homosexual community. Tomorrow it can be anything that is perceived as contrary an exceedingly strict interpretation of Islam. Churches, museums, historical monuments, hospitals, concerts, anyone of the many tribute shows, sporting events, fashion shows, Vegas, are all fair game. So's the olympics. It's guns today. Tomorrow it might be chemical weapons, IEDs, explosives that are readily constructed, retrofitted drones with guns or explosives.

 

[j_garcia]

The 2nd amendment is a provision for the populace to stand up to a government gone tyrannical. At the time it was written the standard arms available to the populace was pretty much what standing military around the world had.

It's an internal balance of power when something has gone horribly wrong

To add to that, the right to bear arms is in no way related to a crazy person murdering people. People always focus on the firearms. We need to be looking at the PEOPLE who do these things, and that is not a simple task.

There is pretty much no question this person was a terrorist. He was previously investigated by the FBI for terrorist affiliation.

 

[Steve81]

I just don't understand how he was able to shoot over 100 people without being tackled by somebody.

Depends on the layout of the club (and his knowledge of it), any tactical training the guy might have had, etc. If there was a natural choke point he could take advantage of, that would make it rather difficult to tackle the guy.

 

[psbfan9]

Tomorrow it can be anything that is perceived as contrary an exceedingly strict interpretation of Islam.

This is not exclusive to Islam.

Pastor Steve Anderson;

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2016/06/12/christian-pastor-celebrates-nightclub-massacre-theres-50-less-pedophiles-in-this-world/


Pastor Kevin Swanson;

There are many, many, more examples of supposed christians calling for the death of homosexuals.

 

[markw]

Sorry to disappoint ya, but how many have actually done it

 

[Steve81]

Sorry to disappoint ya, but how many have actually done it

Who knows. Doesn't really matter in any case. If you've got guys preaching hate from the pulpit, eventually bad things will happen.

 

[markw]

Compared to muslims preaching hate from mosques, that number is inconsequential. And, just in case you're thinking about it, the Westboro Baptist whackos have no backers aside from themselves.

 

[GO-NAD!]

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/06/the-extraordinarily-common-violence-against-lgbt-people-in-america/486722/

 

[Steve81]

Compared to muslims preaching hate from mosques, that number is inconsequential.

Depends on how you define hate. While most churches in the US have hopefully moved on from preaching violence against LGBTs, a great many (including the Catholic Church) continue to qualify homosexuality as unnatural, depraved, sinful, etc.

 

[markw]

Not being receptive to a lifestyle is light years away from killing them, or inciting your congregation to kill them.

 

[Alex2507]

Depends on how you define hate. While most churches in the US have hopefully moved on from preaching violence against LGBTs, a great many (including the Catholic Church) continue to qualify homosexuality as unnatural, depraved, sinful, etc.

The Catholics taught me not to kill at the age of 6. Gotta give 'em that much. It also seems like they provide a world wide retreat for gay men and women. Actions speak louder than words.

 

[Steve81]

Not being receptive to a lifestyle is light years away from killing them, or inciting your congregation to kill them.

Not being receptive to a lifestyle is also light years away from declaring homosexuality as unnatural, intrinsically evil, etc. You're right, I don't see how those kinds of benign teachings could be used by unstable individuals to justify violence.

 

[Alex2507]

Bonus sarcasm points.

 

[markw]

Not being receptive to a lifestyle is also light years away from declaring homosexuality as unnatural, intrinsically evil, etc. You're right, I don't see how those kinds of benign teachings could be used by unstable individuals to justify violence.

Good point but I don't see those unstable individuals lashing out from either of the two other religions based on the God of Abraham, just one.