Stand alone room audio correction

[Good4it]

Does anyone make a system that works with my current AVR?
My current AVR is a Yamaha RX-A1050 which has YAPO. I WANT SOMETHING DIFFERENT without having to buy a new AVR.

 

[tyhjaarpa]

Why do you want different room correction in first place? What is wrong with YAPO?

 

[Good4it]

I don't trust and I just wanted to use another to compare. It set the distance to my surround speaker wrong (5 feet actually vs 43 feet reported), set my sub wrong (-1.5 dB vs 0.0 sounds better), set all my speakers to large.

If it set those wrong what else might not be to my liking? Just wanted to try something different without having to change my AVR. It might be the same or could be different. That's all.

 

[ski2xblack]

How about speaker correction rather than room correction? (Or maybe the ability to address some of each?) I'm thinking of something like miniDSP, or pro style PEQ such as this. Such devices would require manual calibration, but if you know what you're doing they beat any auto-magic room correction approaches.

 

[Good4it]

That looks expensive!

 

[everettT]

I don't trust and I just wanted to use another to compare. It set the distance to my surround speaker wrong (5 feet actually vs 43 feet reported), set my sub wrong (-1.5 dB vs 0.0 sounds better), set all my speakers to large.

If it set those wrong what else might not be to my liking? Just wanted to try something different without having to change my AVR. It might be the same or could be different. That's all.

The distance on the front 3 are the most important, correcting the surrounds is OK. As for - 1.5 Bs 0dbs us pretty minor and surprised that you noticed the difference. Stand alone units typically require out board amps unless you have multi channel inputs. Outboard EQ can be inexpensive, but with huge learning curves or expensive for "semi" plug and play. If your serious about an improvement, you need to map your rooms response.

 

[everettT]

Also how are your surrounds only 5'? How far are you from the mains?

I don't trust and I just wanted to use another to compare. It set the distance to my surround speaker wrong (5 feet actually vs 43 feet reported), set my sub wrong (-1.5 dB vs 0.0 sounds better), set all my speakers to large.

If it set those wrong what else might not be to my liking? Just wanted to try something different without having to change my AVR. It might be the same or could be different. That's all.

 

[Good4it]

Mains are 6 1/2" and surrounds are 5". I'm 9 feet from the fronts but the surrounds are behind me 3 feet and a hiback sofa and and in front of a wall. Not ideal but it's the best I could do.

5' was a mistake, I meant 5" around, you know, in size not distance.

 

[fuzz092888]

That looks expensive!

Room correction is a minimum of $200 to break into and that's pretty basic. There's still a learning curve from there. What exactly did you expect?

 

[Good4it]

$200 to$300 sounds about right. I was hoping for stand-alone system that I could setup and play my unit and speakers and have it make recommendations. Like the ones that come installed but not make changes, only recommend settings. Is there such a thing? That doesn't cost an arm and leg?

 

[fuzz092888]

$200 to$300 sounds about right. I was hoping for stand-alone system that I could setup and play my unit and speakers and have it make recommendations. Like the ones that come installed but not make changes, only recommend settings. Is there such a thing? That doesn't cost an arm and leg?

No

 

[herbu]

if you know what you're doing

And therein lies the rub.

 

[TheWarrior]

This is going to catch some flack from the Audyssey Lover's Association (TM) but:

Any 'room correction' program that ignores room dimensions is nothing but a glorified auto setup program! Sure, it's convenient to not have to input distances (delays) and crossovers manually, but as you've seen, they are not 100% reliable.

http://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=17839 Dr. Floyd Toole paid to make this paper public. He explains to the n'th detail the physics on why an omni mic situated in a room with unknown dimensions only offers part of the story, and shouldn't be used as universal remedy for small room acoustic 'problems'.

To my knowledge, only the latest Harman processors allow for this, but they are extremely high end! (whose development was orchestrated by Floyd's successor Dr. Sean Olive)

Save your money, and move your speakers! Experiment with the distance to the wall behind them, as well as the distance between them. Adjust your 'Auto-Eq' settings accordingly.

 

[PENG]

This is going to catch some flack from the Audyssey Lover's Association (TM) but:

Any 'room correction' program that ignores room dimensions is nothing but a glorified auto setup program! Sure, it's convenient to not have to input distances (delays) and crossovers manually, but as you've seen, they are not 100% reliable.

http://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=17839 Dr. Floyd Toole paid to make this paper public. He explains to the n'th detail the physics on why an omni mic situated in a room with unknown dimensions only offers part of the story, and shouldn't be used as universal remedy for small room acoustic 'problems'.

To my knowledge, only the latest Harman processors allow for this, but they are extremely high end! (whose development was orchestrated by Floyd's successor Dr. Sean Olive)

Save your money, and move your speakers! Experiment with the distance to the wall behind them, as well as the distance between them. Adjust your 'Auto-Eq' settings accordingly.

I am not taking side but would just say the obvious that there are different opinions Dr. Toole and Chris K are both EE with Ph.D and have their own research facilities. It is hard to know enough to decipher who is right, or simply more right.

 

[3db]

Mains are 6 1/2" and surrounds are 5". I'm 9 feet from the fronts but the surrounds are behind me 3 feet and a hiback sofa and and in front of a wall. Not ideal but it's the best I could do.

5' was a mistake, I meant 5" around, you know, in size not distance.

Have you consulted with Yamaha yet about the results? Were the mic positions ever blocked by furniture during its measurements because that would impact a distance calibration and mess up the EQ as well. What are your speaker make and models?

 

[Good4it]

Fronts are Revel M22s and rears are Aperion Verus Grand
II. Sub is SVS pb2000. Nothing in front of speakers. Have not talked to Yamaha yet.

Don't know who to talk to.

 

[TheWarrior]

I am not taking side but would just say the obvious that there are different opinions Dr. Toole and Chris K are both EE with Ph.D and have their own research facilities. It is hard to know enough to decipher who is right, or simply more right.

You need a Ph.D to understand that a 'room correction' software cannot correct anything without knowing the dimensions of a room? And that in-room frequency response provides only a partial explanation without comprehensive phase and impedance data?

Who is Chris K? Too generic for Google. But Floyd's 'research facility' would be more accurately described as 'Canada's facility', the NRC in Ottawa.

I'm genuinely interested in discussing this further, perhaps PM is more appropriate.

 

[TheWarrior]

Fronts are Revel M22s and rears are Aperion Verus Grand
II. Sub is SVS pb2000. Nothing in front of speakers. Have not talked to Yamaha yet.

Don't know who to talk to.

Your ears a far better 'measurement device' than you give them credit for!

But you will have to dedicate some time to moving speakers around to achieve your perceived 'better' results. Unfortunately there is no push-button automatic solution. Save your money for bigger, better, or more speakers and subs!

 

[3db]

Fronts are Revel M22s and rears are Aperion Verus Grand
II. Sub is SVS pb2000. Nothing in front of speakers. Have not talked to Yamaha yet.

Don't know who to talk to.

According to this webpage,
http://www.designeraudiovideo.com/revel-speakers-m22.html

the M22s response are as follows.
In-room response; ±1.0 dB from 52 Hz to 16 kHz In-room response relative to target response; ±0.75 dB from 46 Hz to 20 kHz First reflections response; ±1.5 dB from 50 Hz to 15 kHz Listening window response; ±1.5 dB from 45 Hz to 16 kHz Low frequency extension; –10 dB @ 36 Hz Bandwidth; -6 dB @ 41 Hz and 50 KHz

I read the owners manual and they say to set the speakers to small if woofer diameter is less than 6.5 inches. What Yamaha means is to set your speakers too small and turn off the speaker size check in YPAO.

Obviously, YPAO is detecting enough bass response from the M22s to set them to large. The manual should reference manufacturer speaker response rather then woofer size. My towers have two 5 1/4 " woofers in each tower and can reach the mid 30 Hz. This would be considered large. Set your speakers to small and rerun YPAO with the speaker size check turned off (or unselected)

Are the Aperions bookshelves as well?

Talk to Yamaha's customer support as they very responsive.

 

[Good4it]

Yes the Aperions are bookshelf and how do you turn off just the size check?

I do reset both front + rears to small and 80Hz.

One thing I have not done is reset my AVR to 6 ohm, it's still @ 8 ohm.Ft + rears are both 6 ohm speakers. Would that make a difference?