Subwoofers with servos.

[roadwarrior]

I spoke with Brian face to face for about an hour when I picked up my F15HP. A good guy and very passionate about the hobby--even though it is his business. No doubts, he knows exactly what he is doing and he does it very well!

On a side note, I did ask what brand of speakers he runs in his personal HT. I doubt that anyone would be surprised to learn that he runs Ascends.

That's great. I've talked with Enrico a few times but not Brian. I've seen pictures of him in customers homes addressing placement issues with his sub's . I'm sure they were local to him in Austin but that's pretty great to see regardless. Dr. HSU has also been known to do this same thing in California so it's not just Brian that does this but it's a testament to how invested he is with his customers.

Ascend speakers? That makes sense. I bought my Rythmik LV12R's (2) through them in California because I live in Texas where Rythmik is based and it saved me the sales tax. Just ordered a pair of Chane tower speakers myself but I hear the Ascend's are great speakers as well. Ascend was great to deal with by email and on the phone. Nice people.

Sent from my 710C using Tapatalk

 

[roadwarrior]

I've always looked at servo as a way to achieve "extra" performance, read: "control", for a modest price increase, allowing a more modestly designed driver to compete with a bit higher end driver...it's a beneficial technology that when implemented correctly, gets you advantages over competitors at competing price points. But I've not looked at it as a staggering progression of technology or anything. A superb high end driver will have none of the issues a servo is used to correct...Funk Audio TSAD21-V2 comes to mind. Apples to oranges, but a blunt force example of my clumsy point.

That said. I certainly like the Servo products that are available.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I pretty much agree with you but I also take into consideration the amp extension modes and the selectable 12/24dB slope switch Rythmik sub's provides even on its lowest models. All with Direct Servo and all with these other amp features(some even more.) Plus there's the cost difference between the Rythmik line and Funk audio(who I like by the way). One thing we can all agree on is there are lots of great choices out there in subwoofers with passionate owners and designers behind them and that's a good thing for us the consumer.

Sent from my 710C using Tapatalk

 

[slipperybidness]

That's great. I've talked with Enrico a few times but not Brian. I've seen pictures of him in customers homes addressing placement issues with his sub's . I'm sure they were local to him in Austin but that's pretty great to see regardless. Dr. HSU has also been known to do this same thing in California so it's not just Brian that does this but it's a testament to how invested he is with his customers.

Ascend speakers? That makes sense. I bought my Rythmik LV12R's (2) through them in California because I live in Texas where Rythmik is based and it saved me the sales tax. Just ordered a pair of Chane tower speakers myself but I hear the Ascend's are great speakers as well. Ascend was great to deal with by email and on the phone. Nice people.

Sent from my 710C using Tapatalk

Yeah, never underestimate the power of CASH! I was able to get a bit of a sweeter deal by paying in cash.

$ talks and BS walks

 

[Steve81]

I pretty much agree with you but I also take into consideration the amp extension modes and the selectable 12/24dB slope switch Rythmik sub's provides even on its lowest models. All with Direct Servo and all with these other amp features(some even more.)

FWIW, the Funk subs include ALL-DSP to shape the response pretty much any way you want (PEQ, shelf filters, high/low pass filters). I believe Nathan will also build you a custom filter if you don't want to mess with that stuff, but can give him an in room FR graph. Of course there's that small matter of cost...

 

[Irvrobinson]

I've always looked at servo as a way to achieve "extra" performance, read: "control", for a modest price increase, allowing a more modestly designed driver to compete with a bit higher end driver...it's a beneficial technology that when implemented correctly, gets you advantages over competitors at competing price points. But I've not looked at it as a staggering progression of technology or anything. A superb high end driver will have none of the issues a servo is used to correct...Funk Audio TSAD21-V2 comes to mind. Apples to oranges, but a blunt force example of my clumsy point.

I don't think I buy your point, since the only two servo sub examples I'm familiar with, the Velodyne DD Plus series and the Rythmiks, both use very high-end custom drivers. I wonder, however, how audible the differences are, or whether they are measurement-only wonders. I can't hear much of a difference in the settings on my DD18 Plus. Many product features offer measurable differences that are very difficult for humans to discern, and many companies make a good business convincing people they can discern the differences. K&N air filters for cars and trucks are examples that come to mind. (Though K&N filters are not especially good for your engine, while sub servos appear to be innocuous.)

 

[roadwarrior]

FWIW, the Funk subs include ALL-DSP to shape the response pretty much any way you want (PEQ, shelf filters, high/low pass filters). I believe Nathan will also build you a custom filter if you don't want to mess with that stuff, but can give him an in room FR graph. Of course there's that small matter of cost...

Yep. Great bass is just a matter of money. How low do you want to go?

Sent from my 710C using Tapatalk

 

[Tim_Saxton]

I don't think I buy your point, since the only two servo sub examples I'm familiar with, the Velodyne DD Plus series and the Rythmiks, both use very high-end custom drivers. I wonder, however, how audible the differences are, or whether they are measurement-only wonders. I can't hear much of a difference in the settings on my DD18 Plus. Many product features offer measurable differences that are very difficult for humans to discern, and many companies make a good business convincing people they can discern the differences. K&N air filters for cars and trucks come to mind are an example that come to mind. (Though K&N filters are not especially good for your engine, while sub servos appear to be innocuous.)

Someone had to bite - now that you bring up the beautiful DD18+, I solidify my point. Granted, as I recall you managed to get your sub for a great price. But this is the apples to apples example that makes my point less clumsy.

One of the main benefits of servo designs according to the literature is a reduction of distortion, compression and other mechanical artifacts...once again, something a TSAD21-V2 doesn't suffer. Tech vs design. Both are wonderful, both have their place, both can be married...and frankly...servo mechanism are something that may be easier to monetize or use as a differentiator. I think we can all agree, servo technology is not required to achieve the highest heights of sub performance. This being the crux of my point. However servo designs may be required to achieve superior performance at a specific price point.

Cheers


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Irvrobinson]

I think we can all agree, servo technology is not required to achieve the highest heights of sub performance. This being the crux of my point. However servo designs may be required to achieve superior performance at a specific price point.

I'm not an expert on sub design, so I can't really say if I agree or not. I do know that based on the measurements I've seen, using a servo does not seem to be required to get good performance at virtually any price level. On the other hand, I'm guessing a servo circuit would seem to be able to demonstrate measurable improvements for any sealed design, including the Funks. Like I said, I question whether the servo impact would be audible, and I just don't know. Velodyne's use of a servo was not a decision-making feature for me when I bought it, and it wouldn't be now.

 

[shadyJ]

I'm not an expert on sub design, so I can't really say if I agree or not. I do know that based on the measurements I've seen using a servo does not seem to be required to get good performance at virtually any price level. On the other hand, I'm guessing a servo circuit would seem to be able to demonstrate measurable improvements for any sealed design, including the Funks. Like I said, I question whether the servo impact would be audible, and I just don't know. Velodyne's use of a servo was not a decision-making feature for me when I bought it, and it wouldn't be now.

If you look closely at the measurements at data-bass.com, you can see how low the FV15HP's 2nd harmonic is, and also 4rth. Looks to me like the chief advantage of server is reduction of even order harmonics. Servo feedback isn't the only way too eliminate even order harmonics, but it looks like an efficient way.

 

[3db]

I'm not an expert on sub design, so I can't really say if I agree or not. I do know that based on the measurements I've seen using a servo does not seem to be required to get good performance at virtually any price level. On the other hand, I'm guessing a servo circuit would seem to be able to demonstrate measurable improvements for any sealed design, including the Funks. Like I said, I question whether the servo impact would be audible, and I just don't know. Velodyne's use of a servo was not a decision-making feature for me when I bought it, and it wouldn't be now.

I chose the Rythmik LV12-R over the SVS PB-1000 because it played louder and deeper and was more configurable. I didn't buy it because of the servo. I have it set up for extension but even in this mode, the sub is remarkably tight and good for music. I don't know if I can attribute its tightness directly to the servo but Rythmik is definately on to something.