NC Bathroom Law

[Chu Gai]

There's another couple in that show Mark where a guy transitioned into a female and a woman into a male. They met each other during the procedure and have fallen in love. If it works for them, fine. Just not my cup of tea.

 

[herbu]

And yet, somehow, this is not a problem anywhere else in the country?

I'm thinking the same thing. Never heard of it being a problem here or anywhere else. That's why I'm wondering if the whole thing is a manufactured plan and strategy. Remember, it began w/ Charlotte passing a law requiring all businesses to accommodate TGs w/ private restrooms, and/or allow them in the restroom of their choice. I can't help wondering why.

NC passing a state law that clearly violates US laws on discrimination.

Yeh, that's the rub. From the little I've read about the laws and lawsuits, it is not at all clear that the cited Civil Rights Act applies. Analysts expect the judge to find with NC in their lawsuit against the Justice Dept. That's why the Justice Dept responded w/ a separate issue, (university funding), that will be adjudicated by a completely different body they believe will be more favorable to them.

The whole thing is a cluster mess, and I think goes WAY beyond the issue of bathrooms. That's why I think it was a politically manufactured issue designed solely to divide and provide political ammunition.

Regarding the Crocodile Dundee clip... I had a very similar incident when I was in the Navy. Stationed at Treasure Island, went into San Francisco one day w/ a buddy from Louisiana. Road a street car, got off and went into a bar. Ordered a couple beers. Noticed 2 girls at a table, smiling at us. We smiled back. Told the bartender to give them a couple beers. He said, "Boys... you know those are guys... right?".

We said, "NO! They're girls... and pretty girls, too!". He said nope. We finished our beer, thanked him, and left. A couple good ol' southern boy's first experience in San Francisco. (ps. Never saw which bathroom they used. )

 

[Alex2507]

How about a special bathroom for vaginas only? I don't care how you came by the vagina.

Men's rooms and locker rooms are a mess. I complained at the gym that in the steam room that there was a guy who had one guy bent over the bench and there was another guy behind him! They just said, "Yeah, that's Mike. He's lucky at cards too".

 

[Chu Gai]

I think you're right Herbu, in that the status quo was never a problem before until people looked to finesse/refine/define or whatever you want to call it the situation. I did a bit more reading and this is what I came up with.

For over a decade some members in the State legislature have made periodic attempts to work this whole LGBT(whatever thing) into legislation that would protect members of this group from discrimination. I don't know if it was ever determined that this was a problem but they looked to codify it into law. That never went anywhere but periodically they would try.

Life went on in SC. Individual businesses were always free to have whatever bathroom they wanted to install and I'm sure they did. PayPal, under the status quo, was more than happy to announce plans for a business there. Springsteen would've played and mayors from cities like Seattle or Baltimore would've still conducted official travel there (don't know if they ever did).

So what happened is that Charlotte, which has a democratic mayor and city council decided to do what the State legislature didn't - pass a law that conferred such protection. That didn't sit well with the Republican state government so they then passed a law that basically looked to define how bathrooms were to be used. Where once there was business as usual now there was a controversy. Charlotte never disapproved PayPal from setting up shop there even though PayPal does business in countries where gays face unimaginable fates.

So now each side is blaming the other for potentially lost revenue and the Feds, through the Justice Department, are looking to strong arm SC into rescinding the law by withholding education money thereby hurting children, parents, teachers, etc. So we've got suits, countersuits, which somehow and some day is going to work through the legal system.

 

[herbu]

the Feds, through the Justice Department, are looking to strong arm SC

First, it's NC, not SC, thank you.

Heard an explanation of the Fed's position this morning. They say Gender Identity is the same as race, under the Civil Rights Act of 1964. If a man who "identifies as a woman" wants to use the women's locker room or bathroom, you must let him. By extension, if the same man wants to live in the girl's dorm at college, you must let him. Play on the girl's team, join a sorority, use the girl's dressing room, and on and on. No discrimination or exclusion because of gender identity.

And if any state doesn't comply, they can lose any/all federal funding for any/all programs.

 

[markw]

Well, Obama has chimed in with his opinion on this.

http://www.westernjournalism.com/federal-edict-orders-schools-to-open-all-bathrooms-to-transgendered-students/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=WesternJournalism&utm_content=2016-05-13&utm_campaign=manualpost

 

[Chu Gai]

First, it's NC, not SC, thank you.

Heard an explanation of the Fed's position this morning. They say Gender Identity is the same as race, under the Civil Rights Act of 1964. If a man who "identifies as a woman" wants to use the women's locker room or bathroom, you must let him. By extension, if the same man wants to live in the girl's dorm at college, you must let him. Play on the girl's team, join a sorority, use the girl's dressing room, and on and on. No discrimination or exclusion because of gender identity.

And if any state doesn't comply, they can lose any/all federal funding for any/all programs.

All the more reason this needs to wind its way through the courts.

 

[musichal]

Every now and then I need a reminder of why I don't read, watch or listen to News. Thanks, all. I'm good for another ten years.

 

[highfigh]

Could happen.

 

[highfigh]

And then, in Chicago,.....

https://www.yahoo.com/news/8-old-girl-choked-unconscious-222948574.html

 

[rnatalli]

Why do we as a nation go looking for issues; this was never an issue and now we're spending significant time on it. As far as I'm concerned, make the bathrooms universal and call it a done. At the end of day, this will come down to money. For all the tough talk from some states, they will ultimately come around when the reality of losing billions in Federal dollars and from private companies starts to sting.

 

[Rickster71]

Gotta love our corrupt government.
They selectively enforce the Federal Laws they like and ignore the ones they don't.
If this was a different President the headlines would read, "President hates kids... withholds Fed education money from our children."

 

[Chu Gai]

Why do we as a nation go looking for issues; this was never an issue and now we're spending significant time on it.

Well, times they are a changing. Remember that old song, "Heaven Knows, Anything Goes"? Parents and even doctors are doing what some believe are potentially quite dangerous to our youth who their parents support in their gender identification which is medication, hormones I think, to suppress puberty. If you're born a male but identify as a female, drugs are provided which delay the onset of puberty, facial hair, muscular mass, etc.
Unisex bathrooms are not a problem to my mind so long as it's one person at a time. But in a school, that's generally not the case.

As far as I'm concerned, make the bathrooms universal and call it a done. At the end of day, this will come down to money. For all the tough talk from some states, they will ultimately come around when the reality of losing billions in Federal dollars and from private companies starts to sting.

Well, if no one did anything, that would be the case. However we are going to see this wind its way through the courts since at this time this matter is not clearly defined. It doesn't even fall squarely on liberal vs. conservative lines. As far as companies go, Target recently came out on all inclusive bathrooms and they've seen a consumer backlash with their stock dropping significantly. Is it temporary or not? The Mayor of NYC, Comrade DeBlasio, said he'd like to see residents boycott Chick-Fil-A. It's had the opposite effect. Lines are out the door and around the block.

 

[markw]

Somebody PLEASE tell me this is a joke.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/05/14/obama-admin-rule-forces-hospitals-doctors-accepting-federal-funds-provide-gender-transition-services-abortions/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social

Bueller? ... anyone?

 

[Chu Gai]

We can always turn to the college educated youth who will someday hold honorable and productive positions in the world to guide us.

BTW, my soon has a small pit bull, Lexi. She's spayed but every now and then will look to hump your leg for a moment. She goes to the bathroom outside wherever she wants.

 

[herbu]

I have no problem with people "identifying" with a gender. But I have a hard time correlating it legally to race... because of choice. Here's what I mean.

The law does not provide a black person with choice. They can't choose whether to use a Black Only bathroom, or an integrated bathroom. We all use the same one.

The Charlotte law provided a choice. Today the person could choose the men's, tomorrow the same person could choose the ladies. And/or, every business had to provide separate gender neutral bathrooms, locker rooms, etc. To me, that is more "special dispensation" than "equality".

I completely understand how embarrassing and humiliating it could be for a man, dressing and living as a woman, to walk into a public Men's restroom. Before the Charlotte law put this in the spotlight, I'm sure many people used the "wrong" restroom without incident. And I'm sure people have been discovered and harassed for using the "wrong" bathroom.

Now it's a political issue. People on both sides will bring up useless examples that do nothing to clarify the problem or answer. I don't know what the answer is. So far, I haven't heard any proposal I think would solve the problem. I'm looking for something that is true equality, not special dispensation. And I don't think it will come from an anarchist guide that allows people to do whatever they want, whenever they want.

 

[shadyJ]

This isn't an issue I care very strongly about, but again it looks as if conservative media outlets are lying to promote outrage. I don't see anything about Charlotte's mandating an entirely separate bathroom for transgendered people. Can anyone point to a reputable source which explains that? a part of Charlotte's actual non-discrimination bill? Because I am looking and I don't see it. What I see is that someone who identifies as a certain sex is permitted to use that sex identities bathroom. I just assumed that is something transgendered people were doing all along, so I don't get the anger at this point. What I am seeing conveniently ignored is the fact that the HB2 "bathroom law" bill outlaws minimum wage increases from local communities above that of the state minimum wage, and I assume this is the real point of the bill. Typical conservative red herring, attack sensible economic legislation using socially progressive issues as a smokescreen for the jesus freaks and creaky old prudes. Don't you think communities have the right to set their own minimum wage? Why don't conservatives ever get tired of being lied to?

 

[Chu Gai]

Well this is interesting.

Demark will become first country to no longer define being transgender as a mental illness

 

[Chu Gai]

Define transgender, Shady.

 

[shadyJ]

I don't know much about transgenders. Someone who has a gender X brain stuck in a gender Y body?