Help with choosing ...

[StanMccue]

I’m new; let’s establish this from the get go. For the longest time the wife and I have been living with 7.1 HTiB from Onkyo. The system was probably $300 when we bought it some 8 or years ago. The receiver has sense been replaced with a Denon AVR-791, but we are still using the speakers from the original system. We are purchasing a new home and are intending on upgrading the speakers and have an absolute max budget of 2k. Attached is a pic of the great room for reference. The ceilings are 9 foot at the edges and ~11 at the center. The room is 29’ across the front of the built-in and 16’8 deep. I have managed to talk the wife out of having to ceiling mount the LCR and sub, but she won’t budge on the surrounds. We are considering the following

LR - Polk Audio AM7095-A Monitor70 Series II
C - Polk Audio AM2185-A CS2 Series II
Sub - Polk Audio PSW10 (x2 possibly)
Surround - 8-inch Kevlar 2-Way In-Ceiling Speakers (Monoprice)

The above configuration seemed at least a reasonable upgrade to the existing set of speakers. I am open to suggestions and I am not stuck on Polk’s or spending more cash if it makes sense.

Please help.

 

[Dan Madden]

Beautiful room Stan !! Everything you have planned sounds like a plan to me! I would strongly recommend the 2 sub option. Also, get a throw rug in that room to tame the bass and standing waves. Otherwise, I'm jealous !!

 

[slipperybidness]

I’m new; let’s establish this from the get go. For the longest time the wife and I have been living with 7.1 HTiB from Onkyo. The system was probably $300 when we bought it some 8 or years ago. The receiver has sense been replaced with a Denon AVR-791, but we are still using the speakers from the original system. We are purchasing a new home and are intending on upgrading the speakers and have an absolute max budget of 2k. Attached is a pic of the great room for reference. The ceilings are 9 foot at the edges and ~11 at the center. The room is 29’ across the front of the built-in and 16’8 deep. I have managed to talk the wife out of having to ceiling mount the LCR and sub, but she won’t budge on the surrounds. We are considering the following

LR - Polk Audio AM7095-A Monitor70 Series II
C - Polk Audio AM2185-A CS2 Series II
Sub - Polk Audio PSW10 (x2 possibly)
Surround - 8-inch Kevlar 2-Way In-Ceiling Speakers (Monoprice)

The above configuration seemed at least a reasonable upgrade to the existing set of speakers. I am open to suggestions and I am not stuck on Polk’s or spending more cash if it makes sense.

Please help.

View attachment 18220

Meh, you can do better than polk for the $! Especially on the subs!

That $2K number, is that for 5.1 or 5.2 speakers and AVR only? Not including TV in the $2K? And, do you already have all the cables and wire or is that part of the $2K number?

 

[rojo]

Can't say I'm a fan of Polk's low-end stuff, nor of those 10" bass modules. You can do better. Would you consider bookshelf speakers for the mains, or are you set on towers? You can generally get a better value from bookshelfs. I think a worthwhile option would be the Hsu Research Hybrid 3 3.1 combo for $1408 shipped. For in-ceiling surrounds, the HTD in-ceiling speakers look interesting, featuring +/- 3dB switches on the woofer and the tweeter for more flexible timbre matching of the mains. That should leave you plenty of room for wiring and speaker stands.

 

[StanMccue]

Beautiful room Stan !! Everything you have planned sounds like a plan to me! I would strongly recommend the 2 sub option. Also, get a throw rug in that room to tame the bass and standing waves. Otherwise, I'm jealous !!

The throw is on order, and thanks! I kinda like the room too.

 

[StanMccue]

Meh, you can do better than polk for the $! Especially on the subs!

That $2K number, is that for 5.1 or 5.2 speakers and AVR only? Not including TV in the $2K? And, do you already have all the cables and wire or is that part of the $2K number?

The $2K number does NOT include the TV, which is limited to a 55" because of the built-in. The cables and wire should be included in the budget, but I can if necessary get them as an "Oh, I forgot I need these too". everything else should be Prego; It's in there.

 

[StanMccue]

Can't say I'm a fan of Polk's low-end stuff, nor of those 10" bass modules. You can do better. Would you consider bookshelf speakers for the mains, or are you set on towers? You can generally get a better value from bookshelfs. I think a worthwhile option would be the Hsu Research Hybrid 3 3.1 combo for $1408 shipped. For in-ceiling surrounds, the HTD in-ceiling speakers look interesting, featuring +/- 3dB switches on the woofer and the tweeter for more flexible timbre matching of the mains. That should leave you plenty of room for wiring and speaker stands.

No I'm not set on towers, I think I went that way because of the current implementation is poor at best and wanted to not to repeat the same "mistake". That being said I made a number of mistakes when setting up the current systems, eg wire/cable choice, speaker location. My displeasure is probably not all the equipment's fault. question. In the reading I have done there has been a lot of talk about speakers and cabling when installing in ceilings, but very little about installing the speakers other than cutting a hole in the sheetrock in the appropriate place. My question is; should I build a MDF enclosure around the speaker? It would be reasonably easy to accomplish and would keep the blown-in insulation out of the speaker if nothing else.

 

[rojo]

No I'm not set on towers, I think I went that way because of the current implementation is poor at best and wanted to not to repeat the same "mistake".

Yeah, my first system was an RCA home theater in a box. You'll be surprised at how good a good pair of bookshelf speakers can sound. The advantage of towers is deeper extension, and possibly higher sensitivity if the towers have more drivers. But you can still get transparent, revealing sound from a good (not just any, but good) pair of 2-way bookshelf speakers; and the low-end extension will be handled by the subwoofer. You've got a fair bit of space to pressurize there, so don't skimp on the sub.

That being said I made a number of mistakes when setting up the current systems, eg wire/cable choice, speaker location.

Possibly -- but ultimately, good sound comes from good speakers. You're not going to get good sound from a home theater in a box, regardless of how optimal your wire and placement are. Be careful not to be oversold on your wiring and cables. Monoprice is great for both. Get oxygen-free copper speaker wire, using this guide to determine the gauge. For speaker wire, if it doesn't say OFC, it's probably copper-clad aluminum -- which is only about 2/3 as efficient as OFC if I recall correctly. (Amazon Basics speaker wire is CCA, for example.) If you must have boutique cables, then shop Blue Jeans Cable. Remember this mantra: good sound comes from good speakers.

My displeasure is probably not all the equipment's fault.

It most likely was. And that's OK. Your home theater in a box was probably miles ahead of TV speakers. And the system you're shopping for now ought to be miles ahead of your HTIB. By the way, your Denon receiver is a good one. Keep using it, just with better speakers.

My question is; should I build a MDF enclosure around the speaker? It would be reasonably easy to accomplish and would keep the blown-in insulation out of the speaker if nothing else.

Gene says a back box is a good idea, although a full MDF enclosure is probably overkill. His install uses the sheetrock as part of the enclosure and 2x4's as the sides. There's probably not enough pressure generated by surround speakers to cause even a sheetrock enclosure to flex enough to affect the sound.

 

[StanMccue]

Can't say I'm a fan of Polk's low-end stuff, nor of those 10" bass modules. You can do better. Would you consider bookshelf speakers for the mains, or are you set on towers? You can generally get a better value from bookshelfs. I think a worthwhile option would be the Hsu Research Hybrid 3 3.1 combo for $1408 shipped. For in-ceiling surrounds, the HTD in-ceiling speakers look interesting, featuring +/- 3dB switches on the woofer and the tweeter for more flexible timbre matching of the mains. That should leave you plenty of room for wiring and speaker stands.

I'm curious how http://philharmonicaudio.com/aa.html speakers would compare to the HSU's you mentioned?

 

[rojo]

@StanMccue I would guess the Hsus have better drivers, but the Phil AA's have a flatter response. Also, the Phils have no matching horizontal center channel. You'd need to get a third AA monitor and plan to leave it upright for the center. On the other hand, the Hsus have a horizontal MTM, and the package qualifies you for a discount on a sweet, sweet subwoofer.

Another very worthwhile option would be the Ascend CMT-340 LCR for $834 shipped, or $972 with a pair of matching pedestal stands. Add a Rythmik 15" sub for $909 to bring the total to $1881 (with those stands). Then your Monoprice ceiling surrounds to stay within budget I guess.

 

[StanMccue]

Well, I bought the HSU and HTD speakers suggested and there installed. for all but the woofer I pulled 14ga 4 wire cables to each speaker going through wall plates where appropriate with all terminations using banana plugs. The woofer cable is ~60' of RG6 terminated with standard f-connectors. Then to a wall plate with a f-connector to RCA adapter and on to the speaker/receiver with a standard store bought RCA cable. The standard speaker cables work great regardless of the run length. the Woofer cable is another matter. the RG6 cable tests good, the RCA cables at either end test good as well, but I get no sound from the woofer when connected as intended. did I miss something?

 

[shadyJ]

Well, I bought the HSU and HTD speakers suggested and there installed. for all but the woofer I pulled 14ga 4 wire cables to each speaker going through wall plates where appropriate with all terminations using banana plugs. The woofer cable is ~60' of RG6 terminated with standard f-connectors. Then to a wall plate with a f-connector to RCA adapter and on to the speaker/receiver with a standard store bought RCA cable. The standard speaker cables work great regardless of the run length. the Woofer cable is another matter. the RG6 cable tests good, the RCA cables at either end test good as well, but I get no sound from the woofer when connected as intended. did I miss something?

Test the sub, use something like an Ipod or whatever, connect it to the Sub's input. If no sound, contact Hsu tech support. Make sure the volume knob is turned above low, as it ships with the volume knob all the way down. Make sure you follow the user manual directions.

 

[StanMccue]

Test the sub, use something like an Ipod or whatever, connect it to the Sub's input. If no sound, contact Hsu tech support. Make sure the volume knob is turned above low, as it ships with the volume knob all the way down. Make sure you follow the user manual directions.

Doh! .... Thanks ShadyJ for the reminder to test ALL elements in the chain when troubleshooting. turning up the volume and turning off the crossover (at least temporarily) was the fix. what's sad is that I had read the manual yesterday and remembered that there was a statement about adjusting the volume.

 

[rojo]

Doh! .... Thanks ShadyJ for the reminder to test ALL elements in the chain when troubleshooting. turning up the volume and turning off the crossover (at least temporarily) was the fix. what's sad is that I had read the manual yesterday and remembered that there was a statement about adjusting the volume.

How do you like it so far? Got pics of your new gear?

 

[StanMccue]

How do you like it so far? Got pics of your new gear?

That's a funny story, not. This is a new house and we didn't find it until it was done. The builder also didn't understand low voltage electrical. When we moved in we had telephone jacks wired with cat5e and coaxial jacks wired with rg6 all home run to the exterior of the house. The built-in the living room had power for the tv in the appropriate location but no coax there. The coax was run into the cabnets below but no power. The master bedroom was a little better phone, coax and power were all in the general location we wanted the tv, but I dislike seeing all the equipment out in the open and where we wanted the equipment was less well equipped than the living room. As of now I have pulled 500' of 14awg 4 wire speaker cable that will run the 7.1 I the living room with the speakers suggested and a 5.1 in the master using the old speakers at L/C/R/woofer and 8" THD's that match those in the living room for surround (hoping the THD's will out shine and loosen the purse strings). I've also pulled additional coax and 5e to every room and needed locations all home running to a Leviton rf transparent cabinet. All pre-existing cables have been rerouted as appropriate. The only remaining issue is power; the electrician is scheduled for 7/25. All this to say we actually haven't heard the new speakers other than test tones to id correct location. BTW figured out an interesting way to test the woofer and wiring. My Sperry cable tester sends a tone down the wire to help with identification and proper termination for coax and Ethernet. If you leave the woofer on it will produce an audible tone in response to the tester, though it's a pretty creepy heart beat if you're not expecting it. As you will notice we're still needing stands, suggestions would be appreciated.

 

[rojo]

View attachment 18797 View attachment 18796
That's a funny story, not. This is a new house and we didn't find it until it was done. The builder also didn't understand low voltage electrical. When we moved in we had telephone jacks wired with cat5e and coaxial jacks wired with rg6 all home run to the exterior of the house. The built-in the living room had power for the tv in the appropriate location but no coax there. The coax was run into the cabnets below but no power. The master bedroom was a little better phone, coax and power were all in the general location we wanted the tv, but I dislike seeing all the equipment out in the open and where we wanted the equipment was less well equipped than the living room. As of now I have pulled 500' of 14awg 4 wire speaker cable that will run the 7.1 I the living room with the speakers suggested and a 5.1 in the master using the old speakers at L/C/R/woofer and 8" THD's that match those in the living room for surround (hoping the THD's will out shine and loosen the purse strings). I've also pulled additional coax and 5e to every room and needed locations all home running to a Leviton rf transparent cabinet. All pre-existing cables have been rerouted as appropriate. The only remaining issue is power; the electrician is scheduled for 7/25. All this to say we actually haven't heard the new speakers other than test tones to id correct location. BTW figured out an interesting way to test the woofer and wiring. My Sperry cable tester sends a tone down the wire to help with identification and proper termination for coax and Ethernet. If you leave the woofer on it will produce an audible tone in response to the tester, though it's a pretty creepy heart beat if you're not expecting it. As you will notice we're still needing stands, suggestions would be appreciated.

Ah, It's frustrating having new toys and not being able to play with them. Hopefully you'll get your electrical sorted out soon so you can enjoy your new gear. I hope when you do, you'll let us know what you think.

If you're looking for a good deal on speaker stands, Monoprice has some pretty cheap. You might also search craigslist. You might get lucky and find a pair used from a motivated seller.