Fatal super puma crash

[haraldo]

These are things that just shouldn't happen.

Eyewitnesses saw the rotor skyrocketing away from the fuselage ... Then a series of explosions and 20 feet flames coming from the helicopter... and then the body of the chopter dropping into the sea killing all 13 aboard...

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/04/29/europe/norway-helicopter-crash/

 

[its phillip]

That really shouldn't happen. That's terrible

We lost one of our helicopters about three years ago. It hit some unmarked powerlines and got tangled up and went down. Fortunately the two men inside survived. Both were burned and severely injured of course

 

[haraldo]

That really shouldn't happen. That's terrible

We lost one of our helicopters about three years ago. It hit some unmarked powerlines and got tangled up and went down. Fortunately the two men inside survived. Both were burned and severely injured of course

There was recently a crash here too where an ambulance-chopter went into a power line. I really don't understand why these power-line crashes still occur.

I know for sure 100% guaranteed that the state mapping authorities (at least in Norway) do have full records of all "air-obstacles", meaning powerlines tall buildings bridges, everything that a plane or chopter must stay clear of. I honestly believe the navigation systems in the chopter do or at least should have all this data. And coupled to alerts it should really not be possible for these things to happen anymore. Unless there are some power-lines missing in the database.

Is it not so that also US mapping authorities do have all these powerlines on record in the maps, and that this info is forwarded to air-navigation systems. At least it should !!

 

[Chu Gai]

How high are these power lines?

 

[Swerd]

haraldo – I have nothing to say about the helicopter crash, other than I'm sorry it happened. Flying is dangerous. Maybe better software can help.

I don't know if you've noticed, but there is another Norwegian on Audioholics, roadrune, who is building the ER18 MTM speakers. See the DIY forum beginning around page 23 https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/new-diy-mtm-towers-designed-by-dennis-murphy-and-paul-kittinger.68531/page-23.

His photos (beginning at post #455, page 23) show he has excellent woodworking skills. When he is finished I would like it if you could listen to these speakers. They are designed by Dennis Murphy and sound quite similar to the Salk HT2-TL speakers which sell in the USA for $4700. These speakers, once roadrune finishes his work, would be the best example of a Dennis Murphy design nearby (?) you in Norway.

I did mention that you live in Bergen (post #489). Is that correct? Roadrune said in response (post #490):

"Bergen is my closest "big" city (compared to US cities its small,with a population of about 300.000) and its about an hour and half drive plus 45 minutes with a ferry."​

He isn't very close. I thought you might be interested.

 

[its phillip]

There was recently a crash here too where an ambulance-chopter went into a power line. I really don't understand why these power-line crashes still occur.

I know for sure 100% guaranteed that the state mapping authorities (at least in Norway) do have full records of all "air-obstacles", meaning powerlines tall buildings bridges, everything that a plane or chopter must stay clear of. I honestly believe the navigation systems in the chopter do or at least should have all this data. And coupled to alerts it should really not be possible for these things to happen anymore. Unless there are some power-lines missing in the database.

Is it not so that also US mapping authorities do have all these powerlines on record in the maps, and that this info is forwarded to air-navigation systems. At least it should !!

They are supposed to be on maps. Here is information from one of the NTSB reports:
The operator reported that four utility wires had run between two ridges to support a mine, which had long been closed. Over time, three of the four wires deteriorated and fell due to the natural elements. One wire remained, about 500 feet above the valley floor, and was the wire that the helicopter contacted.

According to a Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) inspector, the wire between the ridges was unmarked and uncharted. As the mine was closed, there was nobody to report the wire to the FAA for addition on the appropriate sectional chart. The helicopter had been flying between the ridges and contacted the wire. The helicopter subsequently descended into a valley and a postcrash fire consumed the wreckage. The inspector added that the helicopter was equipped with two wire cutters, one near the bottom of the fuselage and one near the top of the fuselage; however, the wire contact was with the rotorhead, which was located above the top wire cutter.

 

[haraldo]

How high are these power lines?

To be honest, this will only be guessing as I'm not so into this area, but I have seen power lines going across valleys... and it can be 300 - 500 feet above the grand, maybe even more in some places, but I'm on tin ice now...

 

[haraldo]

haraldo – I have nothing to say about the helicopter crash, other than I'm sorry it happened. Flying is dangerous. Maybe better software can help.

I don't know if you've noticed, but there is another Norwegian on Audioholics, roadrune, who is building the ER18 MTM speakers. See the DIY forum beginning around page 23 https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/new-diy-mtm-towers-designed-by-dennis-murphy-and-paul-kittinger.68531/page-23.

His photos (beginning at post #455, page 23) show he has excellent woodworking skills. When he is finished I would like it if you could listen to these speakers. They are designed by Dennis Murphy and sound quite similar to the Salk HT2-TL speakers which sell in the USA for $4700. These speakers, once roadrune finishes his work, would be the best example of a Dennis Murphy design nearby (?) you in Norway.

I did mention that you live in Bergen (post #489). Is that correct? Roadrune said in response (post #490):

"Bergen is my closest "big" city (compared to US cities its small,with a population of about 300.000) and its about an hour and half drive plus 45 minutes with a ferry."​

He isn't very close. I thought you might be interested.

Thx mate..... all the people killed worked for the major oil company here Statoil (except for pilots), needles to say that Statoil is in major turmoil now

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

They should've been flying in Sikorski instead of french made bird

 

[haraldo]

They should've been flying in Sikorski instead of french made bird

I assume the super puma provides better TCO, which is why they picked the French.... I'm guessing now....

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

I assume the super puma provides better TCO, which is why they picked the French.... I'm guessing now....

How do you calculate TCO for 13 human lives lost?

 

[Chu Gai]

They should've been flying in Sikorski instead of french made bird

I dug around the web a bit on this specific incident and found that the company making them, Airbus, had acknowledged gearbox problems a couple of years ago but had issued a fix of some sort. In this particular model, I read that it was past the scheduled maintenance but had received two 100 hour extensions. Black boxes were recovered and all models of this particular copter have been grounded.

 

[speakerman39]

Haraldo, heartfelt condolences to the victims families. Prayers going up my friend! May they RIP!

Amen Father!

Phil

 

[its phillip]

How do you calculate TCO for 13 human lives lost?

It's not like Sikorsky aircraft are immune to crashes.

 

[Swerd]

Thx mate..... all the people killed worked for the major oil company here Statoil (except for pilots), needles to say that Statoil is in major turmoil now

I hadn't thought about this until I read your note, but perhaps roadrune works for Statoil.

He had said:

"Really busy this weekend, and tuesday its back to work offshore for a couple of weeks, so i wont finish them for a while "
​

If so, safe skies roadrune.

 

[Swerd]

Here's a report of the crash

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36169929

 

[haraldo]

How do you calculate TCO for 13 human lives lost?

Of course you can't......

I realize I was a bit incorrect, not all the people were employed at Statoil but they were either employed at Statoil or doing contracting for Statoil, so they were all related to the company.

Historically safety on the Norwegian sector has been quite good, there's a long time since there's been any incidents with chopters, but the cutting of cost due to the very low oil prices now may change this

I was digging around a bit and it seems the newest iteration of the super puma has some significant issues, it's been 5 fatal accidents in 4 years in british sector with this exact model. Some experts claim there may be a severe flaw with a welding in a very high pressure area, supposedly there should not be any welding in a high pressure area...

The last 6 incidents or accidents in the North sea, have all been with super puma, now the question arises... why?
A common denominator seem to be fractures in the gearbox section, why is this something that cannot be fixed?

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

It's not like Sikorsky aircraft are immune to crashes.

Nothing is immune 100%, but there is must a reason POTUS flies in Sikorsky (in fact both of them)

 

[Chu Gai]

I suspect the maintenance of those Sikorskys to be beyond reproach.

 

[haraldo]

From 2009, from my perspective.... It looks like exactly the same thing.

Gearbox failure, rotor fell off, chopter falling in a burst of flames
http://isambardkingdom.com/?p=531

and... Is it the same fatal gearbox failure occuring repeatedly?

Here's recommendation after the 2009 crash, would be interesting to understand how this redesign took place...
https://assets.digital.cabinet-office.gov.uk/media/548ac196e5274a42900002d6/S5-2009_Eurocopter_AS332L2_Super_Puma__G-REDL_08-09.pdf

Safety Recommendation 2009-075
It is recommended that the European Aviation Safety Agency, in conjunction with Eurocopter, urgently review the design, operational life and inspection processes of the planet gears used in the epicyclic module of the Main Rotor Gearbox installed in AS332L2 and EC225LP helicopters, with the intention of minimising the potential of any cracks progressing to failure during the service life of the gears