Disapointed with Rythmik E15HP. How is it possible? Opting for Yamaha NS-SW1000PN 12"

[bizmord]

So, I started this thread really for a friend of my. I personally own Rythmik F12 and I love that thing. My friend actually loved it as well (at my house) and thus bought 2 of Rythmik E15HP to replace his Yamaha sw901 (piece of sh*t sub in my opinion).

So, we only connected his one Rythmik to compare 1 sub to another before going ahead and connecting 2 subs.

His set up
Yamaha CX-A5000 - processor
Yamaha MX-A5000 - amp
Yamaha Soavo 1 - speakers
Yamaha sw901 - old sub

He used his Yamaha room correction 8 point system and as we were ready to "test" the new sub, it was just a bit disappointing. To elaborate ... Yamaha set his sub at +3 even though the knob in the back was set to 12 o'clock. Now, in my house, my F12 was set to 11 o'clock and even that was loud where my Denon 4311 set sub into the negative numbers. His listening space is smaller than my.

Music = no punch. Some songs sub is barely there. He had to increase volume of it in the settings by +10.
Movies = Flight of the Phoenix ... where the plane does this roll where my couch vibrates from F12 ... his did not. Was kind of weak.

He initially had his speakers set to "Large" but then I got him to change to "SMALL" ... very little improvement.

The back of his sub in terms of settings is set similar to what I have, so no problems there.

So, what's the problem? He is now thinking about buying 2 of Yamaha NS-SW1000PN 12".

His set up.

 

[shadyJ]

What is your room size compared to his? Also, where are you seated in room with respect to the speakers/subs? One possibility is that by having the subs in a symmetrical placement it respect to the listening position, you are getting some major cancellation going on. I am not sure the Yamaha is able to deal with setting phase independantly for two subs. Subwoofer placement typically works better with asymmetric placement. There could be a lot of things going on, and, without measurements, it is impossible to tell what the problem is. It's worth it to look into a measurement and calibration system after the expense of two Rythmik subs.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Your Rythmik is hooked up to a Denon 4311.

Maybe your friend can try a Denon AVR with Dynamic EQ.

 

[j_garcia]

E15 is sealed. F12 is vented. Around the tuning point a vented sub will give you more "oomph". What you're hearing IMO, is correct bass. A good sub does not call attention to itself, just adds the correct amount of bottom end cleanly. "Thud"; aka one note bass, sounds cool but is not accurate bass. If he's looking for more tactile feel though, vented is what he'll want. FV15 or FV15HP.

placement of the sub in the space is important too, and a smaller room is actually usually WORSE for bass due to cancellation.

 

[bizmord]

E15 is sealed. F12 is vented. Around the tuning point a vented sub will give you more "oomph". What you're hearing IMO, is correct bass. A good sub does not call attention to itself, just adds the correct amount of bottom end cleanly. "Thud"; aka one note bass, sounds cool but is not accurate bass. If he's looking for more tactile feel though, vented is what he'll want. FV15 or FV15HP.

placement of the sub in the space is important too, and a smaller room is actually usually WORSE for bass due to cancellation.

Acutaly F12 is a sealed 12 inch sub. What he got was a similar version but with more power and a bigger woofer.

 

[bizmord]

Your Rythmik is hooked up to a Denon 4311.

Maybe your friend can try a Denon AVR with Dynamic EQ.

I know, right? I am very impressed how Denon 4311 worked with my system. I tested it against 3-4 other similarly priced receivers.

 

[lovinthehd]

Denon's Audyssey is more capable of eq'g a sub than YPAO from most reports. Sub placement has been idealized or? Did you ever connect both subs and allow the advantages of dual subs to play out?

 

[Jeff R.]

Have you done the sub crawl? Seems like placement issues.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[bizmord]

no crawl, and for now he was only testing 1 sub. He cares more about the visual than sound, however, wants sound to be good.

We'll see what happens.

thank you guys for the feedback.

 

[herbu]

He cares more about the visual than sound

The sub crawl is a basic, crucial suggestion for good bass. Maybe he'll chose not to put the subs in their optimum position for esthetic reasons. But it's hard to fault the sub w/o trying it.

 

[KenM10759]

You could always try sending the full signal to the speaker level input/output of the subs and adjusting 100% manually. That might tell you the YPAO isn't working with the subs correctly.

 

[lovinthehd]

I hadn't looked up his old Yamaha sub until just now. Looks to be a fairly nice unit altho the price I saw of 1200 GBP (didn't see a US price, aprx 1700 USD) was a bit high I think for a 10" ported sub albeit it seems to have some nice dsp features as well as a good amount of power; likewise the 12" version for USD 2000. I had expected more a HTIB type sub. Why go from ported to sealed? For movies the ported sub likely has an advantage without eq on the low end for the sealed....

 

[fuzz092888]

Is your friend running two centers side by side?

 

[j_garcia]

Acutaly F12 is a sealed 12 inch sub. What he got was a similar version but with more power and a bigger woofer.

Sorry was thinking LV12 for some reason.

 

[bizmord]

Is your friend running two centers side by side?

Yep.

 

[Auditor55]

So, I started this thread really for a friend of my. I personally own Rythmik F12 and I love that thing. My friend actually loved it as well (at my house) and thus bought 2 of Rythmik E15HP to replace his Yamaha sw901 (piece of sh*t sub in my opinion).

So, we only connected his one Rythmik to compare 1 sub to another before going ahead and connecting 2 subs.

His set up
Yamaha CX-A5000 - processor
Yamaha MX-A5000 - amp
Yamaha Soavo 1 - speakers
Yamaha sw901 - old sub

He used his Yamaha room correction 8 point system and as we were ready to "test" the new sub, it was just a bit disappointing. To elaborate ... Yamaha set his sub at +3 even though the knob in the back was set to 12 o'clock. Now, in my house, my F12 was set to 11 o'clock and even that was loud where my Denon 4311 set sub into the negative numbers. His listening space is smaller than my.

Music = no punch. Some songs sub is barely there. He had to increase volume of it in the settings by +10.
Movies = Flight of the Phoenix ... where the plane does this roll where my couch vibrates from F12 ... his did not. Was kind of weak.

He initially had his speakers set to "Large" but then I got him to change to "SMALL" ... very little improvement.

The back of his sub in terms of settings is set similar to what I have, so no problems there.

So, what's the problem? He is now thinking about buying 2 of Yamaha NS-SW1000PN 12".

His set up.

His system looks nice, however where he has his subs placed may not be the best place for them. He should do as others here have suggested, move them around or do the sub crawl to see where they sound best, even though they might end up in some odd place in the room, just as exercise so that you can rule out the subs as being inadequate.

 

[Auditor55]

I hadn't looked up his old Yamaha sub until just now. Looks to be a fairly nice unit altho the price I saw of 1200 GBP (didn't see a US price, aprx 1700 USD) was a bit high I think for a 10" ported sub albeit it seems to have some nice dsp features as well as a good amount of power; likewise the 12" version for USD 2000. I had expected more a HTIB type sub. Why go from ported to sealed? For movies the ported sub likely has an advantage without eq on the low end for the sealed....

He's probably used to the output of the ported sub.

 

[fuzz092888]

Yep.

That is not ideal.

 

[bizmord]

That is not ideal.

That's what I have been hearing. He thinks it gives him great sound. I think he did it for visual again, so that he doesn't have a small speaker.

 

[fuzz092888]

That's what I have been hearing. He thinks it gives him great sound. I think he did it for visual again, so that he doesn't have a small speaker.

In theory he should be getting some nasty cancellations and peaks with them in such close proximity. Perhaps the peak is in somewhere in the midrange and he's hearing it slightly louder than his other speakers which would give the impression of it sounding better.