My biggest issues with Atmos

[Defcon]

It isn't the lack of content or whether it provides a huge improvement, or even comparison to DTS:X.

Its the difficulty of upgrading to Atmos from a 7.1 setup. For years 7.1 has been the goal of an HT setup, there are tons of movies with discrete 7ch, and it provides a proper 360 coverage in 2d.

To switch to Atmos, you need to give up rear surrounds and move to 5.1.2 - don't want to do that.

Or you need to move to 9ch processing and 9 amps - that's a HUGE expense! Even entry level AVR's do 7.1, to get 9ch processing you need to get a very expensive receiver, e.g. Denon X4200W, and even that won't do 9ch of amplification so you need to get an extra amp. Its the same with Onkyo/Yamaha etc.

Then of course you probably need actual ceiling speakers since many say modules don't work that well?

 

[BlwnAway]

It isn't the lack of content or whether it provides a huge improvement, or even comparison to DTS:X.

Its the difficulty of upgrading to Atmos from a 7.1 setup. For years 7.1 has been the goal of an HT setup, there are tons of movies with discrete 7ch, and it provides a proper 360 coverage in 2d.

To switch to Atmos, you need to give up rear surrounds and move to 5.1.2 - don't want to do that.

Or you need to move to 9ch processing and 9 amps - that's a HUGE expense! Even entry level AVR's do 7.1, to get 9ch processing you need to get a very expensive receiver, e.g. Denon X4200W, and even that won't do 9ch of amplification so you need to get an extra amp. Its the same with Onkyo/Yamaha etc.

Then of course you probably need actual ceiling speakers since many say modules don't work that well?

While your receiver point is valid, honestly that's going to change as it always does, prices will go down as the formats progress and 9 channel demand grows, right now it's just the price of early adopting.

As for the speakers, yes, upfiring technology is the low level of performance, but don't forget, they are a compromise that is aimed at the consumer that "just can't" do anything else.
And as far as in-ceiling, yes it is the preferred way to go, but seems like everyone keeps forgetting height speakers (I'm so glad SVS added height speakers to their lineup if nothing else, to keep them in people's minds a an option) while not the absolute best, their much easier to work into a room and will get you 95% of the experience.

 

[Defcon]

I hope the receiver situation changes but I'm not hopeful, 7ch seems to be the hard line. Atmos isn't new anymore, its been at least 2 years now. 2016 models have been announced and its the same story.

You don't even get preouts on any sub 1K receiver.

 

[Steve81]

While your receiver point is valid, honestly that's going to change as it always does, prices will go down as the formats progress and 9 channel demand grows, right now it's just the price of early adopting.

Yes and no. It's not just a matter of fitting 9 channels of decent quality amplification into a single chassis, but all the processing power to handle these formats plus sophisticated room correction, video processing, goodies like WiFi, and so on. Getting the total package isn't going to be an inexpensive proposition in the near term.

Then there's the simple math associated with buying 9 versus 5 or 7 speakers plus subwoofage. If you've got a massive budget, no big deal, but if you're like the rest of us, it a question of tradeoffs. Is it better to have a good 5.1 or a mediocre 5.1.4 system? Personally, I'd just assume get the basics like dialog clarity, solid LFE, etc. down before I worry about adding height channels. Even with my main setup, I'd rather add a second sub before I think about dropping the coin for a new pre/pro, more amplification, and 4 more speakers to jump to a 5.1.4 rig.

 

[BlwnAway]

I hope the receiver situation changes but I'm not hopeful, 7ch seems to be the hard line. Atmos isn't new anymore, its been at least 2 years now. 2016 models have been announced and its the same story.

You don't even get preouts on any sub 1K receiver.

While Atmos isn't new anymore, the immersive audio market in general, still is from a manufacturers point of view, until the dust settles from the DTS-X updates and both formats are included in the receivers from the factory (without a firmware install) we won't start seeing prices go down, and if course as time passes, processing power will increase and the cost for that will drop also, and be passed onto us.

 

[BlwnAway]

Yes and no. It's not just a matter of fitting 9 channels of decent quality amplification into a single chassis, but all the processing power to handle these formats plus sophisticated room correction, video processing, goodies like WiFi, and so on. Getting the total package isn't going to be an inexpensive proposition in the near term.

Then there's the simple math associated with buying 9 versus 5 or 7 speakers plus subwoofage. If you've got a massive budget, no big deal, but if you're like the rest of us, it a question of tradeoffs. Is it better to have a good 5.1 or a mediocre 5.1.4 system? Personally, I'd just assume get the basics like dialog clarity, solid LFE, etc. down before I worry about adding height channels. Even with my main setup, I'd rather add a second sub before I think about dropping the coin for a new pre/pro, more amplification, and 4 more speakers to jump to a 5.1.4 rig.

For many of us that makes prefect sense when it comes to "start with the proper foundation", but for mass market you know it's not going to be that way, it's going to be the same ole "more is better" philosophy...

May be good for the format and adaptation over all into "normal people's" homes, may not... only time will tell.

But I don't see object based audio or the formats themselves going anywhere.

But of course I love the format and improvement in the sound overall from what I've heard so far, I've even experimented with simply turning off my height speakers and switching back and forth between Atmos and Tru-HD and DTS-MA, and for my the Atmos mix has just been better, some mixes even include a different LFE track.

But to be fair, I'm pretty biased at this point.

 

[mtrycrafts]

...

Its the difficulty of upgrading to Atmos from a 7.1 setup. For years 7.1 has been the goal of an HT setup, there are tons of movies with discrete 7ch, and it provides a proper 360 coverage in 2d.

To switch to Atmos, you need to give up rear surrounds and move to 5.1.2 - don't want to do that.

Or you need to move to 9ch processing and 9 amps - ...

Yes, indeed. Jumping from 2D as you indicate to 3D sound is not a small step.
And, if you have a good 7 ch setup, good space behind you and the interest is there for the ceiling stimulus, I'd recommend 11 ch processing( 4 ceiling speakers, not just 2) and perhaps adding an amp for those 4 unless the 11. receiver can amp it.
You probably don't need a lot of power up there unless something really explodes overhead and rains down.

 

[Defcon]

Is there an audible difference between -

a) a 5.1 DD/DTS encoded track
b) the same movie encoded in Atmos/DTS:X and played back on 5.1 speakers

Theoretically should b) sound better? Since it was mastered based on discrete objects, things like panning and locating objects should be lot more precise? Also with DTS:X it says you can do things like increasing the voice level so only voices are louder, wherever they come from, vs increasing the center level which is what we do usually.

I have no doubt object based formats are better, just trying to find out how much of that is actually audible.

 

[BlwnAway]

Is there an audible difference between -

a) a 5.1 DD/DTS encoded track
b) the same movie encoded in Atmos/DTS:X and played back on 5.1 speakers

Theoretically should b) sound better? Since it was mastered based on discrete objects, things like panning and locating objects should be lot more precise? Also with DTS:X it says you can do things like increasing the voice level so only voices are louder, wherever they come from, vs increasing the center level which is what we do usually.

I have no doubt object based formats are better, just trying to find out how much of that is actually audible.

In most cases yes, but it can vary from movie to movie, it really depends on the mixer and what the director wants.
For example, "Man From U.N.C.L.E" has a very different Atmos mix that can easily be heard in the bed layer speakers, the background music is cleaner and more defined and there is extra LFE content encoded also.

 

[Andrew08]

my experience with atmos tells me that yes they are different,
i can hear the rain drop from above,
as normal person yes more is better,
but seriously, if you have say $2k for sound system
which one will you buy? cheap 5.1.2 speaker with atmos receiver or good 5.1 speaker with older receiver?
of course it will go down to your own preference.

 

[Defcon]

my experience with atmos tells me that yes they are different,
i can hear the rain drop from above,
as normal person yes more is better,
but seriously, if you have say $2k for sound system
which one will you buy? cheap 5.1.2 speaker with atmos receiver or good 5.1 speaker with older receiver?
of course it will go down to your own preference.

I would always spend majority of budget on speakers as they make the biggest difference.