Feeling lied to and mislead what do I actually need for my set up.

M

Manvillerc

Enthusiast
If it's settings how do I get it to sound like stereo mode when on surround. Do I need to shut off audyssey and use the EQ to reduce highs and mids to bring out the lows?or should I just say screw it and buy a different more powerful powered subs rather then trying to get the sound is know the mains are capable of
 
M

Manvillerc

Enthusiast
The whole point here is that you haven't convinced anyone but yourself that you need more power.

If you think you need more power, then buy a beast of an amp. If you still have the same problem, then you know 100% for certain that power is NOT the problem. (I doubt you can add an external amp to a low end AVR though)

You need DOUBLE the power to get 3dB sound pressure level increase!

If those CV are REALLY 93dB, then lack of power is almost certainly NOT the problem.

If a speaker gives a "power handling spec", I completely ignore that pretty much useless spec! As do pretty much all the other experienced forum users.

Try to run the speakers full range, no crossover, no room correction, stereo mode only. Does that get the sound you want? If it does then you know that it is a setup or configuration or RC problem. If it does not, then you can proceed down the list of troubleshooting options.

At the very least, you owe it to yourself to try the FREE options BEFORE you drop more $.

I hate to tell you this, but my gut says "buy better speakers". But, you may be able to get them to a sound that you like. Mind you, I'm not bashing CV, I like them for what they are---a "party speaker" may be a good description--and that is one reason that we are not convinced that power is the problem.
Elaborate when you say party speaker what dose that mean? Just loud, bass(not right now), unclear, muddy, inaccurate, colorful...
 
slipperybidness

slipperybidness

Audioholic Warlord
Wait a minute. If you run in stereo mode, it sounds great?

But if you turn on surround sound it does not?

Are you listening to 5.1 music? Or only 5.1 movies?
 
M

Manvillerc

Enthusiast
Oh also I wanted to replace the pioneer vsx 817 because I could get almost what I wanted out of it but if I turned it up passed half way the would say over load and reset its self it works fine other then that
 
M

Manvillerc

Enthusiast
Not great just more output bass wise in 2 channel stereo no specific music type or movies it seems the same regardless of audio source streaming ripped case movies all at varying quality lvls the bass is at similar lvls when in 5.1 the mains never get close to the power subs unless in stereo with tone and eq control mind you the powered sub is a 150 watt peak 2x8inch subs. When in stereo the mains can hang with or beat if I turn it up high enough the powered subs but I can't seem to bring out that bass while in anything other then stereo
 
Cosmic Char

Cosmic Char

Audioholic
I feel your pain brother. I have bought many an item thinking it would work or perform one way, and I was sometimes impressed. But often, I was disappointed. With very deceiving marketing practices, it is very difficult for people to blindly purchase audio equipment. By blindly, I mean without demonstrating the product. Hence, I would encourage demoing everything you buy, or at least have the option of returning the device after purchase.
 
slipperybidness

slipperybidness

Audioholic Warlord
Not great just more output bass wise in 2 channel stereo no specific music type or movies it seems the same regardless of audio source streaming ripped case movies all at varying quality lvls the bass is at similar lvls when in 5.1 the mains never get close to the power subs unless in stereo with tone and eq control mind you the powered sub is a 150 watt peak 2x8inch subs. When in stereo the mains can hang with or beat if I turn it up high enough the powered subs but I can't seem to bring out that bass while in anything other then stereo
OK.

Now, we may be getting somewhere.

What you are telling us, I'm not convinced that lack of power is your problem at all.

Even with 5 channels hooked up, the surrounds rarely take a lot of power to drive.

When "the fronts are lacking bass output", are you 100% certain that you are feeding the fronts with a signal that has tremendous bass?

To me, I'm back to a setup or configuration problem, or perhaps your expectations are not realistic (based on the material being fed to the speakers).

If it sounds OK for stereo, but not for 5.1, then you need to read the manual and figure out how to get a pure direct 5.1 mode that will cut out all processing and all channel trim level settings and all crossover points, etc, etc. If you do that and it sounds OK, then we know for certain that something in your configuration is wrong.
 
I

imjustdave

Audiophyte
Not at a computer but I have a Sony that has 5.1 it has no way of sending base to the front 2 channels it assumes you are using the powered sub. It even says it in the manual. So in 2 channels it sucks. I have a denon too don't recall which one haven't read the manual but it seems to be better but still in the same suck boat in 2 channel in the garage or it's amplifier just sucks. I feel you maybe expecting the grind to have lots of power but they may have built the unit to depend on the sub and thus cut the base out.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
 
M

Manvillerc

Enthusiast
I've improved the sound a bit by lowering high and mid frequencys quite alot it sounds less clear slightly more muddy sounding but am pulling much more bass even while in 5.1 it may be possible to clear the sound up a Lil more with the eq but I'm not an expert so not sure how
 
M

Manvillerc

Enthusiast
All of this still doesn't change the fact I'm still rather aggravated with denon and other major brands for the misleading advertising by changing parameters of tests to make it seem like it's so much more powerful then your old equipment. I was led to belive I was going from 110x7 to 185x7 turns out I can't directly (don't know how) compare them, because the 6 year old pioneer vsx817 test had different parameters then this denon s910w tested at different frequencys,ohms,channels driven....
 
rojo

rojo

Audioholic Samurai
For speakers with 93dB/w/m sensitivity, 110 watts gets you ~113dB@1m. 185 watts gets you ~115dB. You're putting entirely too much stock in the numbers, @Manvillerc ! Stop it, right now!

Those numbers say nothing about the timbre of the speakers -- whether the midrange is subdued, whether the highs are harsh, whether the overall presentation is muddy, whether the off-axis response is muffled. They only predict max output at a reasonable rate of distortion (that is, a mismatch between signal received and signal amplified).

Now, I know your receiver has several virtual surround modes to play with -- Dolby Pro Logic II, DTS:Neo-X, and other variations. In my experience (as well as that of many of the other forum members and audiophiles beyond), all those virtual surround modes make the sound nebulous, with an ambiguous sound stage. Turning off virtual surround will make your stuff sound better. To do this, hit the Pure button on your remote repeatedly to cycle through Direct -> Pure Direct -> Auto, and stay on Auto. You might have to do this with each of your sources: switch to Auto while you're watching cable, switch to Auto while watching a Blu-Ray, switch to Auto while listening to Internet radio, and so on. With the Auto surround mode enabled, stereo signal gets played back as 2.1, while native 5.1 AC3 or DTS or similar signal plays according to the programming, just the way the studio mixers intended; and native 7.1 content uses all your speakers.

EQ is for acoustic correction of your room characteristics. It's not for solving the inadequacies of speakers. And unless you've got the appropriate measurement equipment to determine where EQ needs to be applied, attempting to EQ by ear almost always results in doing more harm than good. Flatten your EQ. Turn your subwoofer down so that the notes it plays are the same volume as the notes your mains play. Then set your mains to small and set their crossover point to 80Hz, and set your subwoofer's crossover to 80Hz. Maybe taking some bass out of the mains will relieve the passive crossovers on your tweets of having to filter it out, and improve clarity somewhat.

If you still don't like the sound, then remember this: better sound comes from better speakers. I can't stress this enough. Better sound comes from better speakers. Upgrading electronics will not fix problem speakers. If you have money burning a hole in your pocket, audition more speakers. Try some locally owned boutique audio stores. They'd love the opportunity to show you what you're missing. Keep the AVR until it dies or until you absolutely must have a new feature this AVR doesn't support.
 
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slipperybidness

slipperybidness

Audioholic Warlord
All of this still doesn't change the fact I'm still rather aggravated with denon and other major brands for the misleading advertising by changing parameters of tests to make it seem like it's so much more powerful then your old equipment. I was led to belive I was going from 110x7 to 185x7 turns out I can't directly (don't know how) compare them, because the 6 year old pioneer vsx817 test had different parameters then this denon s910w tested at different frequencys,ohms,channels driven....
Yeah, welcome to the AV party :D

Your best bet is to ONLY look at 3rd party MEASUREMENTS. Take any published specs from any vendor with a large grain of salt.

Just like any other hobby, it pays to do your homework BEFORE spending the $.

Edit--By the way 110W to 185W is still NOT a significant power improvement! So, you see that you are "aggravated" by the numbers game, but you plainly do NOT understand the math behind the numbers!

If you have a true 110W, then to get a 3dB increase in the power output (i.e. the spl), you MUST move up to 220W! So, you see how this works? Even if the amps are rated honestly, you WOULD NOT EVEN GAIN 3dB on the OUTPUT!

PS--Read and then re-read the post from Rojo above until you understand the truth that he is telling you!

You come here to ask for advice because you need help. Yet, you still have not dropped your preconceived answers to your own questions. When we tell you something that you didn't expect to hear, you go back to your faulty reasoning.
 
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M

Manvillerc

Enthusiast
Isn't this the 3db only applicable to to max volume? Doesn't having to runot in the upper limits of a receiver introduce more noise. I'm not looking for a set up where I need to max out volume to get the performance is wanot not to mention the mids and highs would be so loud my ears would not be happy. I just want a different balance. Maybe the problem is how av receiver's approach things maybe I need to just say truck it and get a more powerful powered sub
 
slipperybidness

slipperybidness

Audioholic Warlord
Isn't this the 3db only applicable to to max volume? Doesn't having to runot in the upper limits of a receiver introduce more noise. I'm not looking for a set up where I need to max out volume to get the performance is wanot not to mention the mids and highs would be so loud my ears would not be happy. I just want a different balance. Maybe the problem is how av receiver's approach things maybe I need to just say truck it and get a more powerful powered sub
If you want great sound, ditch the CVs and invest in better speakers.

Sorry, but it's like we're a dog chasing its own tail here.

You have gotten great advice and answers to your questions. If you don't want to take the advice that was given, then that is up to you. It's your $.
 
M

Manvillerc

Enthusiast
If you want great sound, ditch the CVs and invest in better speakers.

Sorry, but it's like we're a dog chasing its own tail here.

You have gotten great advice and answers to your questions. If you don't want to take the advice that was given, then that is up to you. It's your $.
Great sound is subjective. Idk what your parameters are. The cvs imo are very clear when I let the avr do its own thing. Just lacking in bass what speakers are you suggesting for a match with a denon910w
 
slipperybidness

slipperybidness

Audioholic Warlord
Great sound is subjective. Idk what your parameters are. The cvs imo are very clear when I let the avr do its own thing. Just lacking in bass what speakers are you suggesting for a match with a denon910w
First, you want to choose good speakers. THEN you purchase an AVR or an amp that can drive the chosen speakers.

Seriously, I highly recommend that you go back to the beginning of this thread and re-read all of the responses that you have gotten at this point.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I think the OP is on the right track in moving on from the small sub he's using (especially as compared to the bass drivers in his current speakers). Learning a bit more about how power relates to spl might help but if increased bass is needed, a more powerful sub is in order (and to then use all speakers as small so as to utilize the better sub(s).
 
slipperybidness

slipperybidness

Audioholic Warlord
I think the OP is on the right track in moving on from the small sub he's using (especially as compared to the bass drivers in his current speakers). Learning a bit more about how power relates to spl might help but if increased bass is needed, a more powerful sub is in order (and to then use all speakers as small so as to utilize the better sub(s).
I completely agree with your statement. But, I'm not convinced that the OP doesn't have some setting or config problem.

1 way to fix a problem may be to throw $ at it. I always try the free solutions before I throw $ at it.
 
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