Do certain amps match with speakers ?

j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
Not a total myth. Amps of different types do have a different sound to them, such as tube vs. solid state IMO. SS vs. SS, you can get some variances depending on how the amps were designed as well, though I feel that's much smaller. Once you reach the point of enough power for how much sound you're after I don't think it matters so much. Speakers themselves and proper placement of them will have a more profound impact on your sound.

This thread has a lot of into too:

https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/can-you-hear-a-difference-in-sound-between-audio-amplifiers.84632/
 
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TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
Or is this an audiophile myth?
The honest answer is yes, but no one can tell which amps and which speakers.

The amp loudspeaker interface is very complex, little understood and not studied nearly enough.

Amps are bench tested into purely resistive loads, which are far removed from real world conditions.

There are some generalizations. If you are daft enough to side with the tubes are better brigade, then you do have a much more limited choice of speakers. Tube amps are upset much more by complex loads than solid state ones.

I think for most two way speakers this is likely a non issue.

The problem comes with exotic three way speakers, that have passive crossovers at too low a frequency. These speakers frequently have complex phase angles and worse drop the impedance below the DC resistance of the drivers. That in itself is a contender for a bad speaker period.

We are now at the point were any decent three way with a low crossover point should be an active speaker to be in any contention to be state of the art.

The issue comes that high priced amps you could use as arc welders are more likely to cope with these aberrations than cheaper amps.

Electrostatic loudspeakers present a special case, as they have to tolerate high capacitance across the load which can send some amps into supersonic oscillation, and blow them up.

Actually few designers have really focused on designing their amps to perform optimally with a wide variety of loads. The late Peter Walker and founder of QUAD Electroacoustics was one of the few who obsessed about this. Part of the reason for this, is that he produced electrostatic loudspeakers that have become icons.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
"Match" only in terms of being capable of powering the speakers.

For example, if a speaker has a nominal impedance of 2 ohms and sensitivity of 80 dB/2.83V/min, it will "match" a lot better to amps that have higher power output (300W into 8 ohms) and capable of 2 ohms than a 100W into 8 ohm amp that is only capable of 4 ohms.

If your speakers are 8 ohms nominal with a sensitivity of 92dB/2.83v/min and you listen from 12FT away at volume less than 90dB, then chances are any good 100W amp is a good match.
 
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slipperybidness

slipperybidness

Audioholic Warlord
Actually few designers have really focused on designing their amps to perform optimally with a wide variety of loads.
TLS, are you familiar with Douglas Self? He has written several books on amplifier design and construction, and I am certain that he has commercial offerings to his credit (though I can't say that I could tell you which ones are his designs).

In particular, the Signal Transfer Company offers PCBs and more complete kits
http://www.signaltransfer.freeuk.com/invarint.htm

That is a link for his
The Load-Invariant Power Amplifier: 2.0
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
"Match" only in terms of being capable of powering the speakers.

For example, if a speaker has a nominal impedance of 2 ohms and sensitivity of 80 dB/2.83V/min, it will "match" a lot better to amps that have higher power output (300W into 8 ohms) and capable of 2 ohms than a 100W into 8 ohm amp that is only capable of 4 ohms.

If your speakers are 8 ohms nominal with a sensitivity of 92dB/2.83v/min and you listen from 12FT away at volume less than 90dB, then chances are any good 100W amp is a good match.
It would be most surprising if it were that simple, given the highly variable devices and different output topology. With all the possible combinations there are bound to be unforeseen problems, which more likely than not are far too common.

If we are to make further gains, it is essential that output stage and loudspeaker driver be designed as an integral unit.

And again those speakers that drop impedance to 2 ohms or less are almost certainly total train wrecks.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
TLS, are you familiar with Douglas Self? He has written several books on amplifier design and construction, and I am certain that he has commercial offerings to his credit (though I can't say that I could tell you which ones are his designs).

In particular, the Signal Transfer Company offers PCBs and more complete kits
http://www.signaltransfer.freeuk.com/invarint.htm

That is a link for his
The Load-Invariant Power Amplifier: 2.0
Yes, I'm familiar with this guy.

However I think we reached the limits of what can be done with the current way of doing things. As I stated the output stage and loudspeaker driver have to come to be regarded as an integral unit.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
It would be most surprising if it were that simple, given the highly variable devices and different output topology. With all the possible combinations there are bound to be unforeseen problems, which more likely than not are far too common.

If we are to make further gains, it is essential that output stage and loudspeaker driver be designed as an integral unit.

And again those speakers that drop impedance to 2 ohms or less are almost certainly total train wrecks.
Well theories aside, in real life I have never had any issues with any speakers driven by any amps.

I have powered speakers that go down to 2.7 ohms with a $500 50WPC 5.1 AVR without any issues.

So I think most people with most speakers won't have any issues with most AVR and amps.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
Well theories aside, in real life I have never had any issues with any speakers driven by any amps.

I have powered speakers that go down to 2.7 ohms with a $500 50WPC 5.1 AVR without any issues.

So I think most people with most speakers won't have any issues with most AVR and amps.
They just won't know them!
 
slipperybidness

slipperybidness

Audioholic Warlord
Yes, I'm familiar with this guy.

However I think we reached the limits of what can be done with the current way of doing things. As I stated the output stage and loudspeaker driver have to come to be regarded as an integral unit.
What is your general opinion on Self's designs?

And, that Load Invariant Amp in particular?

I've really been wanting to buy that PCB. And, his pre-amp seems pretty dang nice too.
 
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