What is the definition of Reference in the Audio World?

[Grey Goose]

I rather new to the audio world and am often lost by all of the industry terms slung about. I see the term "Reference" thrown around like it should inherently mean something to the average consumer. But when I go looking for a concrete definition it is as allusive as a jackalope. Many speaker manufactures have their reference lines and some manufacturers have tiered offerings within a reference line indicating that there are multiple levels, or better and worst levels, to reference.

Is Reference a snake oil term that has no meaning? Or is there some real value to this term?

 

[Steve81]

Is Reference a snake oil term that has no meaning? Or is there some real value to this term?

http://seanolive.blogspot.com/2009/10/audios-circle-of-confusion.html

 

[lovinthehd]

Reference (83-85 dB average, depending on definition, with allowance for 20dB peaks, plus 10dB for the LFE channel) for movies isn't even all that well adhered to IMO. Music is all over the place. Nice to have a common point in reference when discussing avr setup, tho.

 

[shadyJ]

THX Reference level. A part of THX's standard not mentioned in there is the sound must have minimal distortion. I don't know the distortion thresholds THX goes by, but it must be very low.

 

[lovinthehd]

THX Reference level. A part of THX's standard not mentioned in there is the sound must have minimal distortion. I don't know the distortion thresholds THX goes by, but it must be very low.

Just the electronics or the speakers as well I wonder?

 

[Steve81]

Just the electronics or the speakers as well I wonder?

Both.
http://hometheaterhifi.com/volume_13_1/feature-article-thx-1-2006-part-3.html

Metrics Tested on THX Speakers:

Axial Frequency Response Analysis
Directional Characteristics
Sensitivity
Impedance
Harmonic Distortion
Low Frequency Cut Off
Phase Angle
Stray Magnetic Flux
Maximum Output Level
Acoustic Noise Level
Polarity

Metrics Tested on THX Amplifiers:

Reference Output Voltage
Voltage Gain
Output Current
Output Source Impedance
Overload Restoring Time
Stability with Capacitive Load
Harmonic Distortion and Noise
Modulation Distortion
Difference-Frequency Distortion
Noise Output Voltage
Phase Response
D.C. Offset at the Output
Hum
Crosstalk
Acoustic Noise Level
Mechanical Noise
Input Sensitivity
Input Impedance
Output Impedance
Load Impedance Range
Voltage Output Capability
Current Output Capability
Transient Output Capability
Transient Overload Recovery Time
Asymmetrical Clipping
Frequency Response
Phase Response
Phase Margin
Time
Total Harmonic Distortion
Intermodulation Distortions
SMPTE IM Distortion
IHF IM Distortion
DIM 30 Distortion
Noise
Hum
Radiated Interference
Conducted Interference
Crosstalk

 

[lovinthehd]

Both.

Thanks, and now that I look at their website I have noticed that certification program before but they don't share the parameters that I can see.....got a lead on the specs?

 

[Steve81]

Thanks, and now that I look at their website I have noticed that certification program before but they don't share the parameters that I can see.....got a lead on the specs?

Only a couple bits. AFAIK, the parameters are pretty tightly held (presumably NDAs and such are involved). Still if you find any specs/measurements on THX equipment, you can take a few guesses.

 

[lovinthehd]

I've got a THX certified receiver The electronics I'm not so interested in as what the speaker distortion levels are....and really have no idea what would be an acceptable level based on the electronics...

 

[mtrycrafts]

I've got a THX certified receiver The electronics I'm not so interested in as what the speaker distortion levels are....and really have no idea what would be an acceptable level based on the electronics...

THX speakers have more than just the distortion spec reference from past readings on the subject.
It specifies dispersion criteria both horizontal and vertical and perhaps a few others. But as stated, hard to get the THX standard. If it wasn't hard, most everyone would be trying to get there. Maybe.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I rather new to the audio world and am often lost by all of the industry terms slung about. I see the term "Reference" thrown around like it should inherently mean something to the average consumer. But when I go looking for a concrete definition it is as allusive as a jackalope. Many speaker manufactures have their reference lines and some manufacturers have tiered offerings within a reference line indicating that there are multiple levels, or better and worst levels, to reference.

Is Reference a snake oil term that has no meaning? Or is there some real value to this term?

Welcome.

Reference is relative. Lots of things have reference like reference meter. Or time measurement.
But I presume you are only interested in the audio and video world.
Some are meaningless by companies except to that company.
There are references to calibrate a video display or projector. THX was mentioned.
Reference volume level calibration of audio channels for theaters and at home.
I am sure there are a few others in this hobby.
Which are you interested in?

 

[lovinthehd]

THX speakers have more than just the distortion spec reference from past readings on the subject.
It specifies dispersion criteria both horizontal and vertical and perhaps a few others. But as stated, hard to get the THX standard. If it wasn't hard, most everyone would be trying to get there. Maybe.

I like your boombox link, altho not sure why you linked it....maybe I didn't read far enough? The second link is a dead end...

 

[mtrycrafts]

I like your boombox link, altho not sure why you linked it....maybe I didn't read far enough? The second link is a dead end...

Long story on the box.
Not sure what happened with that 2nd link.

 

[lsiberian]

It's called marketing OP. Base your purchases off actual performance and reviews not marketing terms or a salesman.

 

[Grey Goose]

Thank you everyone for your replies. Like I said earlier I've seen reviews, including Audioholics, make a statement similar to, "even at reference" without any reference to what reference is. I've also seen speaker manufactures with product likes, such as Klipsch, who have a Reference Series that, spec wise, is all over the place. I think the short answers are:

1) Reference is a BS marketing term
and 2) Reference is relative to what you are measuring and with what you using to measure with.

If anyone else wants to jump in to set me straight please do.

 

[Steve81]

If anyone else wants to jump in to set me straight please do.

There's reference quality and reference quantity to consider.

Reference quality goes back to my "circle of confusion" post; it doesn't really exist. "Reference" branded speakers are just that: branding.

Reference quantity does exist; a modern, properly calibrated AVR with a relative volume scale will output "reference level" when set to 0dB, assuming it and your speakers are up to the task. The general definition of it is that a digital source running at 0dBFS corresponds with 105dB of output from each of the main/surround channels, and 115dB of output from the subwoofer, as measured at the listening position.