Bi-wiring loudspeakers is there really a difference?

[Swerd]

… so you're saying not all speakers can use the jumper, but those that can use the jumper, can also work without one only if biwired or biamped, right? If they're not bi-wired/amped and you remove the jumper, you would hear only one driver - the one you've connected, right?

Speakers with two pairs of terminals are meant to be used in one of these 3 different ways:

1. with a jumper (wire or brass link as shown in my above post)
2. biwired, as shown above (sounds the same as #1)
3. biamped (two amps instead of one, see below)

Biamping is another controversial subject that has very little real evidence of an audible benefit. Rather than confuse things worse, I'll stop here.

 

[BlwnAway]

@BlwnAway thanks, this is not the case however. I'm still buying speakers and am not talking about any specific model. I want to get informed before I buy speakers. I doubt that I will stumble upon any 'no crossover design' in the 800$ bracket. But thanks for the info. I appreciate it.

You can help me with one more thing; so you're saying not all speakers can use the jumper, but those that can use the jumper, can also work without one only if biwired or biamped, right? If they're not bi-wired/amped and you remove the jumper, you would hear only one driver - the one you've connected, right?

killdozzer

Ok, on the new speakers, normally I wouldn't even mention it, but without some idea of what speakers, better safe than sorry in case you were looking at something special or that had been modified.

Yes, all modern non-DIY speakers that you will find with 2 pairs of binding posts will or should, have a jumper of some sort connecting the + terminals together and the - terminals together.
And in reality bi-wiring is doing the exact same thing as the jumper, just at the source instead of the speaker, this is why with the properly sized wire to begin with, bi-wiring will do absolutely nothing to change the sound. (With "bi-wiring, you could even keep the jumpers in place, still the same signal going to the same places, it just wouldn't look as cool or help sales people convince you that you're actually doing something...lol)
However with "Bi-Amping" the jumpers must be removed, you don't want the signal/power coming from two different sources going to the same driver or driver array. That creates Bad JuuJuu....lol

 

[killdozzer]

Thanks once again @Swerd I thought this was the case. So, only in a very unlikely case of speakers with no crossovers would you HAVE TO bi-wire or bi-amp. Otherwise it is optional.

 

[killdozzer]

And in reality bi-wiring is doing the exact same thing as the jumper, just at the source instead of the speaker, this is why with the properly sized wire to begin with, bi-wiring will do absolutely nothing to change the sound.

Ah, cool. This makes perfect sense.!

 

[Swerd]

Thanks once again @Swerd I thought this was the case. So, only in a very unlikely case of speakers with no crossovers would you HAVE TO bi-wire or bi-amp. Otherwise it is optional.

Yes.

But I feel compelled to add it is an option that has only visual benefit, it does not affect the sound.

 

[lsiberian]

I would be suspicious of any speaker company or amplifer company. that reverses colors on their binding posts. between speakers and on the amplifer.

 

[Swerd]

I would be suspicious of any speaker company or amplifer company. that reverses colors on their binding posts. between speakers and on the amplifer.

Truly mirror imaged speakers are clearly out of your price range .

 

[lsiberian]

Truly mirror imaged speakers are clearly out of your price range .

I never thought of the importance. I want mirror imaging in my sound so I must need mirrored binding posts.

 

[j_garcia]

Bi-wiring is like watering your lawn with two hoses, one in each hand. The lawn doesn't know the difference and looks the same. You watered it the same amount. You spent too much on hoses and connections.

 

[StarEye]

Hello,
Sorry for the late answer...
The model of my speakers is "Monitor Audio Bronze 2". They have copper plates that are shorting the LF and HF terminal. Of course in case of double wiring I will remove them

Correct me if I am wrong, but looking at the cables it is worth remembering that you want to minimise as much as possible the impedance between the amplifier and the speakers in order not to filter the signal with unwanted low pass filters. Specifically you want to lower the cable inductance by twisting the wire (a bit like telephone cables).... Is it better to use a parallel wire pair with a massive gauge or a lower gauge twisted pair? My take is that unless you are transferring massive amounts of energy to the speakers (concert stage speakers for example) it is probably better to use a twisted pair. In any case a cable at 1000€/m is just snake oil.

p.s. I just saw yesterday in an audio shop a 2m HDMI cable at 500€ (all gold plated)... aaaaaaarrrrrgggghhhll!!!! the signal in the cable is digital!!! (unless you want really very "square" waves)

 

[markw]

It sounds like you really want bi-wiring to work, Star. In such case, you should go for it

You just might hear what you want to hear.

FWIW, I did concert sound for many years and never, ever used twisted pair wires but perhaps your hearing is better than ours was.

 

[StarEye]

Hi Markw. On the contrary... I couldn't care less about double wiring if it doesn't give an advantage.
I come from the telecom industry and over several Km, twisted or not twisted makes indeed a difference in a cable.
Now does it makes a difference over few meters? You are probably right and it doesn't make a bit of audible difference.
I trust your professional experience

 

[PENG]

And in reality bi-wiring is doing the exact same thing as the jumper, just at the source instead of the speaker,

For the record, and the nth times, this is incorrect. In a properly bi wire scheme the crossover will be separated into two parts/cirucuits, with the jumper removed.

this is why with the properly sized wire to begin with, bi-wiring will do absolutely nothing to change the sound.

I believe that is true >99.9% of the time because any minute difference electrically will not be audible by most people.

 

[PENG]

Ah, cool. This makes perfect sense.!

Not really, mostly true but factually speaking it does not make perfect sense.

 

[killdozzer]

Not really, mostly true but factually speaker it does not make perfect sense in that sense.

Neither does this sentence. Perhaps you were typing in a rush... "/.../factually speaker it does not/.../" Were you trying to say; factually speaking it does not... Otherwise I don't understand what it means. Sorry.

 

[PENG]

Neither does this sentence. Perhaps you were typing in a rush... "/.../factually speaker it does not/.../" Were you trying to say; factually speaking it does not... Otherwise I don't understand what it means. Sorry.

Thanks, I did make a mess of that sentence..

 

[mtrycrafts]

Thanks, I did make a mess of that sentence..

And the real sentence should be....

 

[PENG]

And the real sentence should be....

Sorry I confused you by editing my post. The messed up one was quoted in post#35 and 36. My point is that though there is some truth to the widespread claims due to internet hearsay about bi wiring is:

"And in reality bi-wiring is doing the exact same thing as the jumper, just at the source instead of the speaker"

the fact is that it is not doing the exact same thing because when you bi-wire, you do end up with different signal contents in each pair of wires due to the different impedance characteristics of the crossovers that are separated into two halves because the jumper that tied them together as one circuit has been removed and each pair of wires can now carry different signals as enforced by their own filter/crossover.

I highly doubt anyone can hear a difference just because the wires for the tweeter carries mainly high frequency signals. I simply have trouble with the over simplified claim by some highly respected people in the audio circle. I do admit I may be just too fixated with upholding electrical circuit and field theory.

 

[PENG]

Just noticed BMX's post#16. Had I noticed his post earlier, I wouldn't have posted on this perennial topic at all.

 

[Swerd]

The fact is that it (bi-wiring) is not doing the exact same thing because when you bi-wire, you do end up with different signal contents in each pair of wires due to the different impedance characteristics of the crossovers that are separated into two halves because the jumper that tied them together as one circuit has been removed and each pair of wires can now carry different signals as enforced by their own filter/crossover.

I highly doubt anyone can hear a difference just because the wires for the tweeter carries mainly high frequency signals. I simply have trouble with the over simplified claim by some highly respected people in the audio circle. I do admit I may be just too fixated with upholding electrical circuit and field theory.

I like the way you said this… and I completely agree. But you don't have to apologize for viewing this as an electrical engineer should.

An inexperienced engineer, or someone who had some limited knowledge of electrical circuits, might believe that bi-wiring could possibly make a difference. But an engineer with any experience would immediately suspect such an over simplified claim. And there have been tests of bi-wiring's audibility – none of which ever came up with a shred of evidence to support those oversimplified claims. True, most of those tests were flawed in one way or another. But taken as a whole, these tests all agree that listeners, under a wide variety of conditions, do not hear a difference with bi-wiring. And yet the myth persists.