AVR connection questions

[jnslprd]

Hello all,
This is my first post and hopefull you guys can help a brother out. I am in the process of putting together a modest home audio/theater 80% music 20% tv and movies. I am replacing a 15 yr old Denon receiver with a Marantz sr6009 and need some connection advice. I have a Panasonic plasma tv with only 3 hdmi inputs. I have a DVR/cable box, a play station 3 which will also be my DVD player and an Amazon Fire tv stick and my kids Wii U. Can these devices be ran into the receiver in stead of the tv? I was going to get a HDMI switch and add inputs, but if they can be ran through the receiver I will skip the HDMI switch. If the devices are ran through the receiver will I always have to run the sound sysyem to have any sound?

I also have a separate 2 ch amp that I am wondering if I run from the pre outs will I be using the receivers DAC?

Last question is for a subwoofer recommendation. I have a 17 x 20 room with 2 large archways on the side walls, hardwood floors and 8 ft high ceilings. I am looking for something musically tight and not super huge budget is under $1000. Researched it to death and still can't decide, wife will flip if I get a 15" monster and I really don't have a lot of o[ptions for placement. Been shopping SVS, HSU and PSA.

Thanks in advance and sorry for the long winded first post.

joe

 

[Latent]

Run all hdmi inputs through avr as this is the ideal setup and why there are so many inputs on the avr. If you turn on the hdmi pass through on standby mode then then the avr is off the sound and videi will come from the tv speakers instead for the last selected input. When avr is on sound comes from connected speakers instead.

Is the amp you mention a power amp or an integrated amp? A power amp connects to pre out and acts the same pretty much as the internal built in amps which also just take the preouts signal and increase the power for the speakers. The dac in the avr will be used either way unless you are in analog direct mode.

If you have an integrated amp instead then it is not ideal as it has its own pre-amp stage with input selectors and a volume control. This is just one more source of noise and possible problems but it can be used with the right fixed volume but not normally recommended.

 

[tyhjaarpa]

As for sub, get biggest one on your budget from those manufacturers you list and you will be fine.

 

[KenM10759]

Run all hdmi inputs through avr as this is the ideal setup and why there are so many inputs on the avr. If you turn on the hdmi pass through on standby mode then then the avr is off the sound and videi will come from the tv speakers instead for the last selected input. When avr is on sound comes from connected speakers instead.

Is the amp you mention a power amp or an integrated amp? A power amp connects to pre out and acts the same pretty much as the internal built in amps which also just take the preouts signal and increase the power for the speakers. The dac in the avr will be used either way unless you are in analog direct mode.

If you have an integrated amp instead then it is not ideal as it has its own pre-amp stage with input selectors and a volume control. This is just one more source of noise and possible problems but it can be used with the right fixed volume but not normally recommended.

While this is true, I have been enlightened about a different way to approach this for music-oriented systems. Because my system is used over 90% of the time for 2.1 music, I was looking for a quality 2 channel power amp to augment my receiver for the mains. At peak levels my receiver would go into protection mode so I wanted to double the power there. It's been fine for HT surround sound.

A dealer suggested consideration of an integrated amp. My knee-jerk reaction was just that, another DAC I don't need, more complexity and cost, and possible degradation of sound quality. What he explained was that I would move all the music oriented components to that integrated amp, including Bluesound Vault, turntable and CD changer. The amps suggested have an "HT Bypass" circuit to connect to the receiver for when watching BluRay disks, internet video or cable TV and wanting surround sound. I don't yet understand the fine details of how that circuit works, but the proposal in theory makes sense. The multi-channel receiver would rarely be on at all.

Some of the units suggested were Hegel H160 or H300, Parasound Halo Integrated, or the new NAD M32.

None of this should matter to the OP. Assuming he has a 2-channel power amp already, the way he'd do it is just pre-outs to the amp for the main L-R channels and be done with it.

Yes, as others have said the HT setup would be to put everything through the receiver and with the ARC (audio return channel) to the TV the sound comes through the TV when the receiver is off. I don't know if an older plasma TV has the ARC, though it usually works fine even without that.

 

[jnslprd]

Thanks everyone for the speedy replies. This will work out well thus saving me another set of connections and another set of potential problems.
Pretty sure my TV has ARC I know the #1 HDMI is listed as avr.

Thanks again to all

 

[DigitalDawn]

If ARC doesn't work (it can be problematic at times) you can always use the digital output from the TV to your AVR.

 

[TLS Guy]

While this is true, I have been enlightened about a different way to approach this for music-oriented systems. Because my system is used over 90% of the time for 2.1 music, I was looking for a quality 2 channel power amp to augment my receiver for the mains. At peak levels my receiver would go into protection mode so I wanted to double the power there. It's been fine for HT surround sound.

A dealer suggested consideration of an integrated amp. My knee-jerk reaction was just that, another DAC I don't need, more complexity and cost, and possible degradation of sound quality. What he explained was that I would move all the music oriented components to that integrated amp, including Bluesound Vault, turntable and CD changer. The amps suggested have an "HT Bypass" circuit to connect to the receiver for when watching BluRay disks, internet video or cable TV and wanting surround sound. I don't yet understand the fine details of how that circuit works, but the proposal in theory makes sense. The multi-channel receiver would rarely be on at all.

Some of the units suggested were Hegel H160 or H300, Parasound Halo Integrated, or the new NAD M32.

None of this should matter to the OP. Assuming he has a 2-channel power amp already, the way he'd do it is just pre-outs to the amp for the main L-R channels and be done with it.

Yes, as others have said the HT setup would be to put everything through the receiver and with the ARC (audio return channel) to the TV the sound comes through the TV when the receiver is off. I don't know if an older plasma TV has the ARC, though it usually works fine even without that.

This is all stupid advice from the dealer. I know if no integrated amp that has significantly more power than a receiver. If you are sending your receiver into shut down, check your speaker connections first. If there is no problem with stray "whiskers, then get a receiver with pre outs and get a two channel power amp of twice the power or more of the receiver amps and connect it to the right and left pre outs to drive the left and right mains. Then you still have your bass management. The other alternative is a pre/pro and separate power amps. That is my preferred solution.

ARC is a lousy connection and low bandwidth, and will not pass the loss less codecs. It is basically a SPDIF connection of the same spec as an optical Toslink connection. Added to that ARC is often a pain to set up and get to work. I regard it as a misery connection.

 

[TLS Guy]

Hello all,
This is my first post and hopefull you guys can help a brother out. I am in the process of putting together a modest home audio/theater 80% music 20% tv and movies. I am replacing a 15 yr old Denon receiver with a Marantz sr6009 and need some connection advice. I have a Panasonic plasma tv with only 3 hdmi inputs. I have a DVR/cable box, a play station 3 which will also be my DVD player and an Amazon Fire tv stick and my kids Wii U. Can these devices be ran into the receiver in stead of the tv? I was going to get a HDMI switch and add inputs, but if they can be ran through the receiver I will skip the HDMI switch. If the devices are ran through the receiver will I always have to run the sound sysyem to have any sound?

I also have a separate 2 ch amp that I am wondering if I run from the pre outs will I be using the receivers DAC?

Last question is for a subwoofer recommendation. I have a 17 x 20 room with 2 large archways on the side walls, hardwood floors and 8 ft high ceilings. I am looking for something musically tight and not super huge budget is under $1000. Researched it to death and still can't decide, wife will flip if I get a 15" monster and I really don't have a lot of o[ptions for placement. Been shopping SVS, HSU and PSA.

Thanks in advance and sorry for the long winded first post.

joe

Latent gave you the correct advice. Connect all sources to the receiver. Make one connection from receiver to TV with an HDMI cable.

In a good AV system properly set up, the only TV button you should ever need to use is the on/off switch.

 

[KenM10759]

This is all stupid advice from the dealer. I know if no integrated amp that has significantly more power than a receiver. If you are sending your receiver into shut down, check your speaker connections first. If there is no problem with stray "whiskers, then get a receiver with pre outs and get a two channel power amp of twice the power or more of the receiver amps and connect it to the right and left pre outs to drive the left and right mains. Then you still have your bass management. The other alternative is a pre/pro and separate power amps. That is my preferred solution.

ARC is a lousy connection and low bandwidth, and will not pass the loss less codecs. It is basically a SPDIF connection of the same spec as an optical Toslink connection. Added to that ARC is often a pain to set up and get to work. I regard it as a misery connection.

TLS Guy,

I have an NAD T758 which NAD rates at 60 w/ch with all channels driven and "FTC rating" of 110 w/ch, presumably meaning two channels driven. And it does have pre-outs. All my speaker connections have been double and triple checked, and all have Monoprice banana plugs on all ends, "stray wire free."

My initial intent was to get a simple 2 channel power amp of 150 to 250 watts per channel @ 8Ω. The suggestion to go to an integrated and put all the music gear to it directly sounded fishy to me though started to make sense as he explained I could run my sub off it too though it would be manually calibrated and I could leave the receiver off completely. I'm still researching the whole thing with the "HT Bypass" and learning, so your input is valued. I will say that there are plenty of these integrated amps with twice the power of my receiver, something I don't wish to buy again right away because technology leaps up continuously and it seems a loosing battle for everyone except the receiver makers.

No decisions made yet, not for a couple months yet. Leaning strongly to the original plan of a simple 2 channel power amp though.

 

[TLS Guy]

TLS Guy,

I have an NAD T758 which NAD rates at 60 w/ch with all channels driven and "FTC rating" of 110 w/ch, presumably meaning two channels driven. And it does have pre-outs. All my speaker connections have been double and triple checked, and all have Monoprice banana plugs on all ends, "stray wire free."

My initial intent was to get a simple 2 channel power amp of 150 to 250 watts per channel @ 8Ω. The suggestion to go to an integrated and put all the music gear to it directly sounded fishy to me though started to make sense as he explained I could run my sub off it too though it would be manually calibrated and I could leave the receiver off completely. I'm still researching the whole thing with the "HT Bypass" and learning, so your input is valued. I will say that there are plenty of these integrated amps with twice the power of my receiver, something I don't wish to buy again right away because technology leaps up continuously and it seems a loosing battle for everyone except the receiver makers.

No decisions made yet, not for a couple months yet. Leaning strongly to the original plan of a simple 2 channel power amp though.

Your problem is you have NAD. You really need 250 watts per channel if your NAD is not enough.

Your NAD will be history if you send it protection. I don't like their stuff, it is frail and poor value for money. I suspect it does not like the phase angel/impedance of your speakers. They deserve the acronym: - Not Always Dependable.

Now I know what you have I would not use the power amps in the NAD at all. I would use an external amp from the pre outs for sure.

Forget what the dealer told you and is trying to sell you.

 

[KenM10759]

It has shut down on me twice, both times I was pushing it really hard. I have since bumped up the sub crossover to 60hz and hasn't been a problem. It's been fine, sounds great and I like it. And still under warranty for at least another 9 months. I just don't wish to be running close to the unit's limits. That's not something I do often, as I can only do it when I'm home alone (no wife, no tenant) and that's a rare occurence now that my tenant had retired.

I get to try anything without cost, risk or pressure from the dealer I prefer. They are GOOD to me and well regarded. It's another competitor of theirs that tried to convince me on a Hegel H360. I won't be back in there.

 

[markw]

It has shut down on me twice, both times I was pushing it really hard. I have since bumped up the sub crossover to 60hz and hasn't been a problem. It's been fine, sounds great and I like it. And still under warranty for at least another 9 months. I just don't wish to be running close to the unit's limits. That's not something I do often, as I can only do it when I'm home alone (no wife, no tenant) and that's a rare occurence now that my tenant had retired.

I get to try anything without cost, risk or pressure from the dealer I prefer. They are GOOD to me and well regarded. It's another competitor of theirs that tried to convince me on a Hegel H360. I won't be back in there.

I honestly think you would benefit from a hefty power amp driven from your preamp outputs. An integrated would be a very cumbersome arrangement. ...and I like NAD. Check out my system, from the late 90's

 

[jnslprd]

Thanks all for the advice.

Should my fire TV stick also go into the receiver and which input?

Is there a difference between hdmi cables?

Sorry for all my dumb questions, I no longer have a good av store to go to so I'm online.

Thanks again

 

[KenM10759]

Yes, there is a difference in HDMI cables. Some cost more, a lot more, than the cheaper ones and do the same thing. You just need to pay attention to which classification you need for your equipment. Probably 1.4 but perhaps 2.0 is backward compatible.

 

[mhdaniels31]

For a subwoofer recomendation I just bought a hsu MK5 because my sealed velodyne FSR-18 which was powerful and had good output down to 20hz but really didnt play the low notes in movies that everyone raves about the way I thought I was supposed to be hearing them from an 18 inch driver the velodyne had output down 16hz in my room so I thought that was it then my friend bought rythmic FV15hp and I finally heard the diffrence a large ported subwoofer can make if you can only afford 1 subwoofer and your trying to get the most out of it ported does matter over sealed for those low notes in under $1000 subwoofer category you should really hear what your missing before you decide to settle on something your not sure about and truth be told I live in apt. my family room where my movie theater is set up isnt that large and the diffrence was still night and day I now Know what gut wrenching bass feels like it made my home theater come to life again not that it was bad before I run a 7.1 with towers energy veritas system and thought what I had was playing everything but I was wrong anyway just wanted to give you my 2 cents

 

[KenM10759]

While I very much agree, not everyone has a place to put the much larger box. That would be me.

I've heard and felt my son's SVS PB2000 in about the same space and WOW what a difference. Funny that looking at response curves on the SVS website bears little resemblance to just how much difference there really is.

 

[Don G.]

Pick up one of the high power, inexpensive Crown XLS amps and connect it to your pre-out on the NAD receiver. I promise you those won't go into protection mode unless your ears are bleeding. I got the 2502 which has 440 wpc into 8 ohms and 775 wpc into a 4 ohm load for $550. You can get one with more than 2x your receivers output for a lot less. They are very good amps for the money and will for sure solve your problem.

 

[jnslprd]

thank you all
As much as I would love a giant sub, my wife would be mad. I am probably going to get either stand mounted speakers or small front towers so I worry about aesthetics with a giant sub.

 

[KenM10759]

Don't give up so quickly, and don't assume a subwoofer needs to be huge or ugly to do a good job. The main thing is to get some semblance of bass, and it would take a large stand mount or at least moderate size floor standing speaker to get closer to what a true subwoofer does. And still not even come close.

 

[mhdaniels31]

is it possible for you to get a PB1000 its still a little large but compared to the PB2000 and other 15inch ported subs its quite smaller I would say even small enough to maybe get wife to tolerate but who am I to say but I believe you'ld then be able to maybe satisfy both of you and save some money by going smaller you could also get 2 powerful small sealed subs even a 15inch sub when sealed isnt that big if the model is designed for it like HSU and Rythmik's models why dont you try the cardboard box size test and see how big your room and wife will allow and sealed large drivers will easly give you 20hz performance and duals will compete with large single ported and sound better do to the benefit of even bass anyway try to stick with companies with free return policies so you dont waste money if your not happy afterwards until you find what makes you happy and its great having sub 20hz frequencies but just getting from 20hz-20khz in a room can be done with a single sealed powerful compact subwoofer like the jl audio models or svs sb13 and sound great so just make sure you get something thats high quality and powerful and even a small sealed subwoofer can do wonders hope you enjoy the process its always fun getting new gear and try to keep in mind its for your enjoyment so post back and let me know what you settled on or are going to order and give a listen to