speakerman39

speakerman39

Audioholic Overlord
Folks, just curious if anyone here has ever heard these Seas tweeters:

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/seas-soft-dome-tweeters/seas-excel-t25cf-002-e0011-millennium-tweeter/

I sure have and without a doubt they absolute best tweeters I have ever heard. Was totally floored by their sweetness. Has anyone here ever heard these:

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/seas-woofers-6-7/seas-excel-w18ex-001-e0017-7-magnesium-cone-woofer/

Once again I have these as well. They were used in a set of Taylo Reference Monitors like these:

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/monitors-tyler-acoustics-taylo-reference-monitor-speakers-pair-6872-2016-02-20-speakers-80020-broomfield-co

If I had the funds, then I would surely be all over these. Definitely worth the money imho. Just curious if anyone here has ever heard the Taylo Ref Monitors? Ty does not make them anymore. The Linbrook Sigs were even better and also much more expensive.

Have also heard this tweeter here:

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/ring-radiator-tweeters/vifa-xt25bg60-04-vifa-ring-dome-tweeter-double-magnet-4-ohm/

Was very impressed with the Vifa Ring Radiator Tweeter. Had such wide and smooth dispersion. Just thought that I would mention it.

Cheers,

Phil
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Folks, just curious if anyone here has ever heard these Seas tweeters:

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/seas-soft-dome-tweeters/seas-excel-t25cf-002-e0011-millennium-tweeter/

I sure have and without a doubt they absolute best tweeters I have ever heard. Was totally floored by their sweetness. Has anyone here ever heard these:

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/seas-woofers-6-7/seas-excel-w18ex-001-e0017-7-magnesium-cone-woofer/

Once again I have these as well. They were used in a set of Taylo Reference Monitors like these:

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/monitors-tyler-acoustics-taylo-reference-monitor-speakers-pair-6872-2016-02-20-speakers-80020-broomfield-co

If I had the funds, then I would surely be all over these. Definitely worth the money imho. Just curious if anyone here has ever heard the Taylo Ref Monitors? Ty does not make them anymore. The Linbrook Sigs were even better and also much more expensive.

Have also heard this tweeter here:

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/ring-radiator-tweeters/vifa-xt25bg60-04-vifa-ring-dome-tweeter-double-magnet-4-ohm/

Was very impressed with the Vifa Ring Radiator Tweeter. Had such wide and smooth dispersion. Just thought that I would mention it.

Cheers,

Phil
Yes!



Those tweeters are in my right and left mains. I have been listening to them for 10 years. They are a lovely smooth tweeter, that never does anything to offend.
 
speakerman39

speakerman39

Audioholic Overlord
Yes!



Those tweeters are in my right and left mains. I have been listening to them for 10 years. They are a lovely smooth tweeter, that never does anything to offend.
Wow! Very nice! Are those the same Magnesium mids as well? Sure looks like it to me. Awesome sauce....LOL!!!!! :D:D:D

Cheers,

Phil
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Wow! Very nice! Are those the same Magnesium mids as well? Sure looks like it to me. Awesome sauce....LOL!!!!! :D:D:D

Cheers,

Phil
Yes, they are. The speakers are dual aperiodic transmission line speakers, tuned one half octave apart. They are tiamped but with a a passive crossover to the tweeter. They are truly full range and the LFE channel is blended in. They are powered by three amps delivering 750 watts to each speaker.



The center is also a TL. Surrounds sealed and backs also dual TLs.



Transient response confirms low Q design with excellent transient and phase response.

 
speakerman39

speakerman39

Audioholic Overlord
Yes, they are. The speakers are dual aperiodic transmission line speakers, tuned one half octave apart. They are tiamped but with a a passive crossover to the tweeter. They are truly full range and the LFE channel is blended in. They are powered by three amps delivering 750 watts to each speaker.



The center is also a TL. Surrounds sealed and backs also dual TLs.



Transient response confirms low Q design with excellent transient and phase response.

Holy smokes! Lucky you. That graph is ruler flat! Those drivers are very impressive!

Cheers,

Phil
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
Phil

I haven't heard the Taylo Ref monitors, but I have heard several Salk speakers using the same Seas Excel W18 woofer. The Veracity HT-1, Veracity HT2-TL and Veracity ST (it has the Seas Excel W16 woofer) are among my favorite speakers.

I did hear the Excel T25 Millenium tweeter in a DIY speaker, but it was too long ago to remember well. All of Seas drivers are much better than average, and some, as you have learned, are downright excellent.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Holy smokes! Lucky you. That graph is ruler flat! Those drivers are very impressive!

Cheers,

Phil
Yes, I'm lucky! The really nice thing is that they can be really intimate, and yet also deliver a huge wallop cleanly.
 
speakerman39

speakerman39

Audioholic Overlord
Yes, I'm lucky! The really nice thing is that they can be really intimate, and yet also deliver a huge wallop cleanly.
Yeah, Ty albeit Tyler Acoustics used those same exact drivers in the Taylo Reference Monitors and the Linbrook Signatures. To this very day, the Linbrooks are the absolute best speakers I have ever heard. Nothing I have listened to even comes close. The Vifa Ring Radiator Tweeter is also pretty sweet. But, not at all as good as the Millenium Tweeters. YOU certainly have a top-notch setup.

Cheers,

Phil
 
speakerman39

speakerman39

Audioholic Overlord
Phil

I haven't heard the Taylo Ref monitors, but I have heard several Salk speakers using the same Seas Excel W18 woofer. The Veracity HT-1, Veracity HT2-TL and Veracity ST (it has the Seas Excel W16 woofer) are among my favorite speakers.

I did hear the Excel T25 Millenium tweeter in a DIY speaker, but it was too long ago to remember well. All of Seas drivers are much better than average, and some, as you have learned, are downright excellent.
Richard, once I heard the Taylo Reference Monitors and the Linbrook Signatures lets just say I was hooked. Have NOT heard anything ever that sounds so good. Not even close. The things is, once you have heard speakers like that, everything else sounds somewhat like garbage. The good things is, Tyler Acoustics is only a 30 minute drive from my home. Have met Ty and checked out his gig.

The Vifa Ring Radiator Tweeter is also very impressive. Ty used those in his entry level Freedom Line. The dispersion is what got me. Was totally blown away. Polk uses the same tweeter in their LSi/LSiM line. Never heard the Polks, but I imagine they do sound very good. However, at the price the LSI/LSiM's go for, there are much more viable offerings inmho.

Cheers,

Phil
 
Alex2507

Alex2507

Audioholic Slumlord
Those tweeters were $291 EACH ?!? I just got through coughing up $257 for two tweets and thought I was gonna sh!t but $291 for 1? That's almost in the RAAL range.

My surrounds have Seas Prestige 27TFFC tweeters. Before they were relegated to surround duty they were The Next Level. It's funny how fast the price starts going up on nice drivers.
 
speakerman39

speakerman39

Audioholic Overlord
Those tweeters were $291 EACH ?!? I just got through coughing up $257 for two tweets and thought I was gonna sh!t but $291 for 1? That's almost in the RAAL range.

My surrounds have Seas Prestige 27TFFC tweeters. Before they were relegated to surround duty they were The Next Level. It's funny how fast the price starts going up on nice drivers.
Actually Alex, the Millenium Tweeters used to be more than that. The same for the Magnesium Mids. So, things can real expensive rather quickly. Add in the cabinets, then the crossover components and viola it gets very expensive. Never heard the Raal, but from what I garner it is every bit as good as the Millenium Tweeters. Certainly, want to hear them. Perhaps, even own them-hint Dennis Murphy aka Philharmonic....LOL!!!! ;););)

Cheers,

Phil
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
Those tweeters were $291 EACH ?!? I just got through coughing up $257 for two tweets and thought I was gonna sh!t but $291 for 1? That's almost in the RAAL range.
I told you those Hiquphons are modestly priced for high end tweets :D.
My surrounds have Seas Prestige 27TFFC tweeters. Before they were relegated to surround duty they were The Next Level. It's funny how fast the price starts going up on nice drivers.
Those 27TFFC tweets are a bargain. Dennis is good at finding good performers that sell at modest prices. In those MB27s, the tweeters cost nearly twice the price of the mid woofers. Of course the tweets were made in Norway and the mid woofers were made in India. Seas makes excellent drivers in the medium and high price ranges. They don't do cheap and they don't do extremely high priced.

I now remember hearing speakers with the Millenium tweeters. It was at my first DIY speaker meeting, 12 years ago. It was the meeting where Dennis Murphy and several others organized blind listening tests of speakers with different quality capacitors. There were over 40 people there, and no one could reliably hear differences between cheap non-polar electrolytic caps, modestly-priced metallized polypropylene caps, or exotically high-priced oxygen-free unobtanium caps. They were built into otherwise very good speakers, such as Dennis's MBOW1s. Each speaker had alternate crossovers that could be switched remotely by the listener.

At this same meeting, there were also quite a few speaker builders who brought their speakers to show. One guy proudly showed his 2-way speakers made with the Seas W18 woofer and the Millenium tweeter. (I remember thinking to myself at the time, that's way more money than I want to spend on speakers. How little I knew then :p.) Interestingly, this guy made a classic mistake while doing the final assembly of his speakers the night before the meeting. He wired the tweeters with opposite polarity, they were out of phase with the woofers :eek:. Dennis noticed it right away, but he didn't expose the obvious mistake publicly. Instead, he offered to measure his speakers, and pointed out privately the resulting deep suck out at the crossover frequency. It was probably embarrassing that he never heard the out of phase problem, because earlier that same day he argued prominently that he could easily hear the difference between the cheap and expensive capacitors. He was wrong twice that day.

Another commercially available and very high priced line of speakers feature these same Seas Excel drivers, Joseph Audio. See the Pearl, Perspective and Pulsar models. If I recall, the small 2-way Pulsar costs nearly $8,000 a pair.
 
Last edited:
D

Dennis Murphy

Audioholic General
Holy smokes! Lucky you. That graph is ruler flat! Those drivers are very impressive!

Cheers,

Phil
The bass response is indeed impressive. However, the measurement is heavily smoothed, and there's a mid-treble emphasis centered at 4 kHz that could be problematic on some music. As for the tweeter, it's a very nice unit--ultra smooth in the highs, although the dispersion is a bit limited because the dome is larger than the standard 1" dome. However, I've never been able to hear any difference between it and it's very close and much cheaper brother, the regular T25. We used it in the Madisound 2000 crossover contest.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
The bass response is indeed impressive. However, the measurement is heavily smoothed, and there's a mid-treble emphasis centered at 4 kHz that could be problematic on some music. As for the tweeter, it's a very nice unit--ultra smooth in the highs, although the dispersion is a bit limited because the dome is larger than the standard 1" dome. However, I've never been able to hear any difference between it and it's very close and much cheaper brother, the regular T25. We used it in the Madisound 2000 crossover contest.
I have stopped worrying about that rise at 4 KHz. I don't think it is real, as trying to get rid of it is not good.

That peak should make the speakers a little forward, but if anything they verge on the over laid back. In addition that is the tape hiss area. Open reel tapes without noise reduction do not fizz at all, and are in fact pleasant to listen to. In addition LP repro is excellent, with no spit on the odd click. Having spent many years with magnetic tape, I'm very sensitive to trouble in that region, and I don't hear the tell tale trouble of it.

It is concerning though as it is in the break up region of the magnesium cones, which are notched out. If it is residual of that, then it is not making itself audibly evident.

Since your post I played one of Harry Belock's 7.5 ips half track tapes on the Revox A700. These are real time copies he produced on his Everest label.

I heard no offensive tape hiss at all. Yes, it was audible in the soft passages, but not intrusive at all. The fidelity is stunning, you would never know it was 1959!

He was a bigger lunatic than I am. He was a missile guidance engineer who had his own plant back in the cold war.

He designed and built his own tape decks and mixers in his factory.

Then he paid orchestras handsomely to record them. He sold real time 2 track stereo copies of them at 7.5 ips speed. Everyone agrees they were the gold standard of high fidelity back then.

He recorded the only recording of Sir Adrian Boult conducting Mahler. It is his first symphony, and Sir Adrian turned in one of the best performances I know.

If you want a CD of it let me know. Hardly anyone knows Sir Adrian left a Mahler recording.
 
speakerman39

speakerman39

Audioholic Overlord
The bass response is indeed impressive. However, the measurement is heavily smoothed, and there's a mid-treble emphasis centered at 4 kHz that could be problematic on some music. As for the tweeter, it's a very nice unit--ultra smooth in the highs, although the dispersion is a bit limited because the dome is larger than the standard 1" dome. However, I've never been able to hear any difference between it and it's very close and much cheaper brother, the regular T25. We used it in the Madisound 2000 crossover contest.
I think the Vifa T25 is used in the Polk LSi/LSiM series of speakers. Ty used them in his Freedom line. Just really liked the way it sounded. But, the Seas Millenium Tweeters are absolutely amazing. The best I have ever heard. Want to hear the RAALs one day and perhaps own them. The Philharmonitors have my full attention. But then again, so do the BMR's. :D:D:D:D

Cheers,

Phil
 
D

Dennis Murphy

Audioholic General
I have stopped worrying about that rise at 4 KHz. I don't think it is real, as trying to get rid of it is not good.

That peak should make the speakers a little forward, but if anything they verge on the over laid back. In addition that is the tape hiss area. Open reel tapes without noise reduction do not fizz at all, and are in fact pleasant to listen to. In addition LP repro is excellent, with no spit on the odd click. Having spent many years with magnetic tape, I'm very sensitive to trouble in that region, and I don't hear the tell tale trouble of it.

It is concerning though as it is in the break up region of the magnesium cones, which are notched out. If it is residual of that, then it is not making itself audibly evident.

Since your post I played one of Harry Belock's 7.5 ips half track tapes on the Revox A700. These are real time copies he produced on his Everest label.

I heard no offensive tape hiss at all. Yes, it was audible in the soft passages, but not intrusive at all. The fidelity is stunning, you would never know it was 1959!

He was a bigger lunatic than I am. He was a missile guidance engineer who had his own plant back in the cold war.

He designed and built his own tape decks and mixers in his factory.

Then he paid orchestras handsomely to record them. He sold real time 2 track stereo copies of them at 7.5 ips speed. Everyone agrees they were the gold standard of high fidelity back then.

He recorded the only recording of Sir Adrian Boult conducting Mahler. It is his first symphony, and Sir Adrian turned in one of the best performances I know.

If you want a CD of it let me know. Hardly anyone knows Sir Adrian left a Mahler recording.
The peak is definitely there if your omnimic is working properly. But very few of them do. There could be a calibration issue in that region. Have you measured other speakers under the same circumstances?
 
D

Dennis Murphy

Audioholic General
I think the Vifa T25 is used in the Polk LSi/LSiM series of speakers. Ty used them in his Freedom line. Just really liked the way it sounded. But, the Seas Millenium Tweeters are absolutely amazing. The best I have ever heard. Want to hear the RAALs one day and perhaps own them. The Philharmonitors have my full attention. But then again, so do the BMR's. :D:D:D:D

Cheers,

Phil
Linkwitz uses the Millenium in his Orion, so it can't be too shabby. I've used it in a couple of designs, but couldn't see spending all that money over and above the standard T25 when I couldn't hear or measure any difference. Another dome speaker that may be above the norm is the Transducer Lab beryllium tweeter. I recently used it in a variation on the Salk SoundScape 8 (which normally uses an OEM RAAL ribbon tweet), and was very impressed. I'm going to do a version of my Philharmonitor speaker with it shortly. The problem with domes vs ribbons is that the domes have a lot more moving mass. But most ribbons have more harmonic distortion at the bottom of their range and have to be crossed higher. So I'll be very interested to see how the TL lab Be does in comparison with the RAAL.
 
speakerman39

speakerman39

Audioholic Overlord
Linkwitz uses the Millenium in his Orion, so it can't be too shabby. I've used it in a couple of designs, but couldn't see spending all that money over and above the standard T25 when I couldn't hear or measure any difference. Another dome speaker that may be above the norm is the Transducer Lab beryllium tweeter. I recently used it in a variation on the Salk SoundScape 8 (which normally uses an OEM RAAL ribbon tweet), and was very impressed. I'm going to do a version of my Philharmonitor speaker with it shortly. The problem with domes vs ribbons is that the domes have a lot more moving mass. But most ribbons have more harmonic distortion at the bottom of their range and have to be crossed higher. So I'll be very interested to see how the TL lab Be does in comparison with the RAAL.
Dennis is the TL Beryllium Tweeter expensive? I would be interested in a Philharmonitor using the TL depending on cost. To be honest, I have not heard the RAAL tweeter. But, many that I know and trust rave about how good they are. The BMR's also looks rather impressive. So, I am somewhere stuck in the middle not sure which way to go just yet. Very soon down the road I am looking to make a change with my fronts.

So the question is do I opt for the Philharmonitors w/the RAAL or do I wait for the Philharmonitors w/the TL Beryllium Tweeter? Still yet, maybe just opt for the BMR's? My preference is on music listening-not so much on ht. So, a center channel is really not needed. What do you recommend Dennis?

I actually thought about contacting you via a PM to see if you would be interested in helping me with a project that I have in mind. Been thinking about using the Millennium Tweeters and the 7" Magnesium mids for a 2-way bookshelf speaker. Not sure where I can get the cabinets maybe partsXpress? Then, have you design and assemble the crossovers.

Not sure if you would be interested or if you even have the time. But, I am looking to make a change for the better. Really don't need the flash and dash, just very good sound as music is very important to me. The Taylo Reference Monitors were just fantastic, but Ty does NOT make them anymore. Ty used a lot of exotic cabinets that would NOT be needed for my needs. If you are interested Dennis, then please let me know.

I would NOT be against the idea of using the Vifa Ring Radiator Tweeters as well. Not sure what mid would go with them, but hope to find a 7" mid. Have any ideas? I know that you have done this a very long time. Just want to make a good and sound investment.

Cheers,

Phil
 
D

Dennis Murphy

Audioholic General
Dennis is the TL Beryllium Tweeter expensive? I would be interested in a Philharmonitor using the TL depending on cost. To be honest, I have not heard the RAAL tweeter. But, many that I know and trust rave about how good they are. The BMR's also looks rather impressive. So, I am somewhere stuck in the middle not sure which way to go just yet. Very soon down the road I am looking to make a change with my fronts.

So the question is do I opt for the Philharmonitors w/the RAAL or do I wait for the Philharmonitors w/the TL Beryllium Tweeter? Still yet, maybe just opt for the BMR's? My preference is on music listening-not so much on ht. So, a center channel is really not needed. What do you recommend Dennis?

I actually thought about contacting you via a PM to see if you would be interested in helping me with a project that I have in mind. Been thinking about using the Millennium Tweeters and the 7" Magnesium mids for a 2-way bookshelf speaker. Not sure where I can get the cabinets maybe partsXpress? Then, have you design and assemble the crossovers.

Not sure if you would be interested or if you even have the time. But, I am looking to make a change for the better. Really don't need the flash and dash, just very good sound as music is very important to me. The Taylo Reference Monitors were just fantastic, but Ty does NOT make them anymore. Ty used a lot of exotic cabinets that would NOT be needed for my needs. If you are interested Dennis, then please let me know.

I would NOT be against the idea of using the Vifa Ring Radiator Tweeters as well. Not sure what mid would go with them, but hope to find a 7" mid. Have any ideas? I know that you have done this a very long time. Just want to make a good and sound investment.

Cheers,

Phil
That's a whole lotta questions. We should probably have a private conversation on any new project. Whichever tweeter I end up preferring in the Philharmonitor, the BMR will still be the better speaker. Also, the TL Be tweeter is very expensive--much more so than the RAAL in the Philharmonitor. So I would have to raise the price to about what the Sierra 2 sells for.
 
speakerman39

speakerman39

Audioholic Overlord
That's a whole lotta questions. We should probably have a private conversation on any new project. Whichever tweeter I end up preferring in the Philharmonitor, the BMR will still be the better speaker. Also, the TL Be tweeter is very expensive--much more so than the RAAL in the Philharmonitor. So I would have to raise the price to about what the Sierra 2 sells for.
Yeah my bad Dennis. Did not mean to drop a bombshell of questions on you like that. Just really excited about speaker design. I will send you a PM with some specific questions. Will need to give you a little background on myself first as a reference point. Really appreciate your time. Will be in touch soon. Have a great night Dennis.

Cheers,

Phil
 

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