Phantom Miracle Speaker.... OH BOY!

[fmw]

It is probably a lovely and effective small speaker as speakers go. It is probably an awful $2000 speaker. Apparently they have clapped their hands and changed the rules of physics. Yes it is a legitimate company but it is involved in the illegitimate high end audio industry.

 

[jcparks]

I also am skeptical, however WIRED did an interesting review. While the article doesn't include measurements it does speak to a lot of the "science" and engineering behind the design, including the techniques behind the low frequency response from the small displacement.
Again while they don't have any independent measurements I have always found WIRED to be a legitimate publication and I do trust them more then I do others.
http://www.wired.com/2015/06/review-devialet-phantom-2/

 

[KEW]

I also am skeptical, however WIRED did an interesting review. While the article doesn't include measurements it does speak to a lot of the "science" and engineering behind the design, including the techniques behind the low frequency response from the small displacement.
Again while they don't have any independent measurements I have always found WIRED to be a legitimate publication and I do trust them more then I do others.
http://www.wired.com/2015/06/review-devialet-phantom-2/

In general, this "review" seems like regurgitation of the Company's hype sheet.
Most science they present is "fun facts" type stuff with little associating their implementation with actual performance.

Here is their explanation of how they get deep bass out of this speaker:

To summon this low-frequency voodoo, engineers had to gin up the air pressure inside the Phantom to 20 times what is found in the average high-end speaker. “This pressure is equivalent to 174dBSPL, which is the acoustic pressure level associated with a rocket at launch…” reads the white sheet. For anyone curious, the rocket in question is a Saturn V.

More hype? Not as much as you might think. Which is why the speaker domes inside the Phantom’s extreme vacuum are fashioned from aluminum instead of any of the usual newfangled driver materials (hemp, silk, beryllium). Early prototypes fitted with the most robust commercial drivers available imploded upon liftoff, their diaphragms fragmenting into hundreds of itty-bitty pieces. So Devialet decided to make all their speakers out of 5754 aluminum (as thin as 0.3mm), the same alloy used to make welded nuclear tanks.

That really doesn't explain any of the science behind it.

From the manufacturer's website:

BANDWIDTH
16Hz to 25kHz ± 2dB at 82dB SPL | 28Hz to 25kHz ± 2dB at 92dB SPL | 49Hz to 25kHz ± 2dB at 102dB SPL

I appreciate that they are showing the bass drop off as you turn up the volume. I would assume these are at 1 meter distance so how loud would it be at 3-4 meters where you are more likely to be listening?

I don't trust their accuracy because they engage in plenty of mis-information. They say this speaker has 0 distortion, but when you go to the spec sheet they list amplification distortion at 0.001%. That is impressive (though they provide no indication of at what frequency or power output), but if you are selling a powered speaker, providing the amp distortion as if it is the speaker's distortion is ridiculous.

 

[jonnythan]

"Thanks to the EVO Platform, your system keeps getting better everyday, without even requiring your intervention.

Even after setting it up in your home, Phantom permanently upgrades itself for free, makes its internal connexions evolve, and continually gets better.

Because Devialet practically acts against systems’ obsolescence.."

It has to be a joke, right? Or satire? An experiment to see if idiots will buy it?

 

[fmw]

You can have your own reviews and descriptions but you can't have your own laws of physics. Folks, this is the high end audio industry. You can't believe a word of it. If it actually handles 16 hz, that would be the amplifier, not the speaker despite the Active Co-Spherical Engine which I assumes means a ball shaped thing with an amplifier inside. It is the high end audio industry, the same place that brought you audible power cords and little wooden discs that can lift veils.

 

[fmw]

"Thanks to the EVO Platform, your system keeps getting better everyday, without even requiring your intervention.

Even after setting it up in your home, Phantom permanently upgrades itself for free, makes its internal connexions evolve, and continually gets better.

Because Devialet practically acts against systems’ obsolescence.."

It has to be a joke, right? Or satire? An experiment to see if idiots will buy it?

That part is probably true, although it has nothing to do with the equipment. It is caused by hearing bias. familiarity improves the sense of sound quality over time. That is why manufacturers and dealers support the concept of break-in. The equipment doesn't break in, the listener does.

 

[Seth=L]

If it actually handles 16 hz, that would be the amplifier, not the speaker despite the Active Co-Spherical Engine which I assumes means a ball shaped thing with an amplifier inside.

It's plausible. Think of it this way. There are some small subwoofers out there that produce 16Hz around 80 dB or so. Of course that doesn't mean you'll get meaningful home theater output levels of 16Hz tones, but they do get down there you just never hear/feel it because it doesn't fall in line with the frequencies a subwoofer can play at higher output.

It is entirely plausible the amplifier applies an algorithm to keep the response as flat as possible depending on what output level is being asked of the speaker? Take another look at this curious stream of specifications.

16Hz to 25kHz ± 2dB at 82dB SPL
28Hz to 25kHz ± 2dB at 92dB SPL
49Hz to 25kHz ± 2dB at 102dB SPL

When have you seen a speaker ever publish FR at multiple output levels? I'd say it's a stroke of genius to do this because many audiophiles are content to listen to their music in the 80-90dB range while they read or just relax. I basically would regard the Phantom as a "smart monitor" that given it's output level it adjusts a precise EQ that will keep the side firing drivers operating within their mechanical limits despite the output level, albeit with a loss in low frequency extension as the output level increases.

 

[fmw]

The driver can't move enough air to get there. My 15" subwoofer can't do 16hz at 82db.

 

[KEW]

... many audiophiles are content to listen to their music in the 80-90dB range while they read or just relax...

Just remember that for 80-90dB at 3 meters (~10 ft) you need about 90-100dB at 1 meter (where the measurements were taken)!

 

[fmw]

Just remember that for 80-90dB at 3 meters (~10 ft) you need about 90-100dB at 1 meter (where the measurements were taken)!

....in an anechoic chamber.

 

[its phillip]

The driver can't move enough air to get there. My 15" subwoofer can't do 16hz at 82db.

Your sub probably should. Even the old SVS SB12-NSD output 87.7 dB at 16 hz (2m rms):
http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=80&mset=86

 

[fmw]

Your sub probably should. Even the old SVS SB12-NSD output 87.7 dB at 16 hz (2m rms):
http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=80&mset=86

Perhaps so. Since I can't hear 16 hz I've never tested anything below 20 hz. My sub is down a lot 20 hz.

 

[ski2xblack]

They're not breaking the laws of physics, just attacking Hoffman's Iron Law with brute force (see Kurt's post with the low end extension/spl limits).

I just wonder, why bother with such an exercise in extreme application of power to attempt (fail?) at deep extension at worthwhile levels? Just to prove that it can be done? I haven't bothered to read the marketing hype, but I cannot help but picture a carnival barker yelling, "16 hz at 82 db from a small speaker that looks like a suppository! It can be YOURS for a mere $$$$." The whole endeavor seems silly to me. Goofy product.

 

[fmw]

It takes more than power. You have to move enough air. Therein is the law of physics.

 

[ski2xblack]

They do actually move the air, kinda sorta, at least as much as tiny drivers in a small cab flogged with 3000 watts can...enough to produce 16 hz at 82 db, woohoo!

 

[Hocky]

I listened to a pair of these in a large room that was open to more large rooms the other day - it is a good speaker. Very neutral and coherent. Bass response was amazing for its size. I can't comment on how low it will play because we were listening to music that kind of makes that irrelevant, but it was definitely playing 50hz stuff loudly with no problem at all. It is a good system for sure for something that you want to throw into a room and not have to mess with.

 

[Seth=L]

I listened to a pair of these in a large room that was open to more large rooms the other day - it is a good speaker. Very neutral and coherent. Bass response was amazing for its size. I can't comment on how low it will play because we were listening to music that kind of makes that irrelevant, but it was definitely playing 50hz stuff loudly with no problem at all. It is a good system for sure for something that you want to throw into a room and not have to mess with.

Glad to see someone has finally heard them.

 

[jonnythan]

Gizmodo "reviewed" it and said it sounds good. Which it better, for the price. Their marketing is just ridiculous, though.

 

[snbeall]

As an audiophyte here, perhaps I'm just not working the search feature well yet, but this can't be the only thread on this speaker?? And if so, this can't have died back in January with no further real world reviews or experience??

 

[jonnythan]

As an audiophyte here, perhaps I'm just not working the search feature well yet, but this can't be the only thread on this speaker?? And if so, this can't have died back in January with no further real world reviews or experience??

It's a $2000+ tiny Bluetooth speaker. I assume you're an employee just trying to drum up conversation/page views for this ridiculous product.