Looking For Amp and Speaker Advice

[HipSonic]

I am in the market to purchase some GoldenEar Triton Ones for my dedicated theater room, and they have a maximum power handling of 600 watts. After visiting this site and others I've gotten the impression that I need to have an amplifier with the available headroom in order to drive whatever speakers that you purchase based on their specs, and I have come across a Cinenova Grande 7 channel amplifier rated at 1000w per channel with all channels driven. The questions that I have are, 1) am I correct in reasoning of trying to mate the amp based on the speakers, and 2) is this particular amp a good purchase based on the power required to drive the speakers? Other amps considered are the Crown Drivecore series 2502's and the Emotiva's XPA2/XPA5 generation 3 and PREAMP is a Marrantz 8802A. I thank you all in advance as any advice is and will be greatly appreciated.

Also, have Gene or any of the people at Audioholics reviewed either the Triton Ones or any of the products from Earthquake Sound? Thank you.

 

[slipperybidness]

Tritons are an easy load to drive. They have the built in amps for bass that will take much load off the amp or AVR. IIRC, I think that at least the T2 also has a Zobel network to present a resistive load to the amps.

If you go read on the GE forums, there is talk about how Andy Gross runs his T2 with a SET tube amp (from several years ago when T2 was new)!

I drive my T2 off of my Pio Elite AVR at ~140Wpc.

Bottom line: Any of those amps that you listed should drive the T1 with no problems.

Note: That "power handling" spec on the speakers is completely useless and should be ignored!

 

[HipSonic]

I thank you very much for that information, follow up question. If the power handling specs are useless, what are factors or specs that I should be considering when trying to decide what amp to pair with a set of speakers? Thanks again.

 

[fmw]

Choose some speakers, choose an amp. They are paired.

 

[slipperybidness]

I thank you very much for that information, follow up question. If the power handling specs are useless, what are factors or specs that I should be considering when trying to decide what amp to pair with a set of speakers? Thanks again.

What is the minimum impedance on the speaker impedance curve?

It is best to have an amp that is stable down to that minimum impedance or better.

I like an amp that is 2 ohm stable. If that isn't in the cards, then at least 4 ohm stable or you may be asking for problems. That is a very simplified answer.

If the speakers are not sensitive/efficient, then you may have other items to consider.

Like I said before: If you get the T1 then you are most likely over thinking the amp choice here.

 

[HipSonic]

Choose some speakers, choose an amp. They are paired.

LOL!! Copy That!

 

[HipSonic]

What is the minimum impedance on the speaker impedance curve?

It is best to have an amp that is stable down to that minimum impedance or better.

I like an amp that is 2 ohm stable. If that isn't in the cards, then at least 4 ohm stable or you may be asking for problems. That is a very simplified answer.

If the speakers are not sensitive/efficient, then you may have other items to consider.

Like I said before: If you get the T1 then you are most likely over thinking the amp choice here.

Well that said, I can feel good with that information. I will then probably go with 2 crown drive cores and XPA5. Thank you sir, for all of your help. It is greatly appreciated, not to mentioned you probably saved me 2 grand.

 

[slipperybidness]

Well that said, I can feel good with that information. I will then probably go with 2 crown drive cores and XPA5. Thank you sir, for all of your help. It is greatly appreciated, not to mentioned you probably saved me 2 grand.

You do plan on 7 channels and 7 speakers? But you are gonna purchase amps for 9 channels?

 

[HipSonic]

I plan on buying amps for 9 channels, the Marrantz gives me the option for 11 to 13.

 

[slipperybidness]

I plan on buying amps for 9 channels, the Marrantz gives me the option for 11 to 13.

9 channels and 9 speakers? Or are you planning to bi-amp or something?

 

[fmw]

What is the minimum impedance on the speaker impedance curve?

It is best to have an amp that is stable down to that minimum impedance or better.

I like an amp that is 2 ohm stable. If that isn't in the cards, then at least 4 ohm stable or you may be asking for problems. That is a very simplified answer.

If the speakers are not sensitive/efficient, then you may have other items to consider.

Like I said before: If you get the T1 then you are most likely over thinking the amp choice here.

Minimum impedance isn't the issue. We need to use nominal impedance for this sort of thing. Minimum impedance is rarely even a manufacturer's specification. Finding a speaker system that a typical home audio amplifier can't handle at reasonable volume levels is actually rare.

The perfect example of this myth are the famed Magnepan speakers. They have a reputation as amplifier killers when, in fact, their minimum impedance is at 20khz where there is no recorded sound. Maggies are actually among the easiest speakers to drive in the industry.

The OP should use the the manufacturer's nominal impedance specification even though there might be some argument about how reasonable the specification is.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I used to own the Def Tech BP7000SC towers. I think they were "rated" for 1000W and had a minimum impedance of around 2.7 ohms (I think from HT Magazine). I think Nominal impedance was about 8 ohms.

I used to power them with my HK 50WPC AVR w/o any external amps. They sounded great.

So I doubt you need 1000WPC amp. If you desire external amps, something like 150-300WPC is more than great enough IMO.

 

[PENG]

Looking at minimum impedance as though it is nominal is obviously wrong, though there are people who would tell you that, (TLSG comes to mind?) but I don't think slipperbidness was saying that. Like most things, it depends.. If there is concern, such as where the combination of amps with low power output and larger speakers are involved, one should look for the impedance graph just to be sure. If the amp has ample reserve for the application, then there is no need to worry about impedance period.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Looking at minimum impedance as though it is nominal is obviously wrong, though there are people who would tell you that, (TLSG comes to mind?)

Or that AVRs are crap.

It does keep things interesting.

 

[fmw]

Looking at minimum impedance as though it is nominal is obviously wrong, though there are people who would tell you that, (TLSG comes to mind?) but I don't think slipperbidness was saying that. Like most things, it depends.. If there is concern, such as where the combination of amps with low power output and larger speakers are involved, one should look for the impedance graph just to be sure. If the amp has ample reserve for the application, then there is no need to worry about impedance period.

My point is that amplifier "impedance stability" is specified as nominal impedance not minimum. The other important point is that "impedance stability" specifications are measured at full output power which normally would never happen. Certainly it would never happen in my system. I would find it challenging to find a combination of amplifier and speaker than wouldn't work in a normal home environment at normal volume levels. I think we frighten beginners with all these issues that aren't likely to happen.

 

[slipperybidness]

Minimum impedance isn't the issue. We need to use nominal impedance for this sort of thing. Minimum impedance is rarely even a manufacturer's specification. Finding a speaker system that a typical home audio amplifier can't handle at reasonable volume levels is actually rare.

The perfect example of this myth are the famed Magnepan speakers. They have a reputation as amplifier killers when, in fact, their minimum impedance is at 20khz where there is no recorded sound. Maggies are actually among the easiest speakers to drive in the industry.

The OP should use the the manufacturer's nominal impedance specification even though there might be some argument about how reasonable the specification is.

Personally, I don't trust the nominal impedance numbers in the slightest, if they are published by the manufacturer.

The Infinity P363 is a perfect example! Nominal impedance from Infinity is 8ohm, but AH measurements clearly indicated that these should have been rated as 4 ohm.

I noted a distinct improvement on my Dynaco ST-70 tube amp whenever I swapped to the 4ohm taps.

I tend to play it safe and look at the minimum impedance. If you really want to play it safe, then just get an amp that is 2 ohm stable.

Anyway, it's just a difference in approach and/or philosophy. I was mostly just trying to make my response as simple as possible for the OP noob.

I agree that having these types of problems for home audio is rare. And for the T1 that the OP is questioning---get an amp and go!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The Infinity P363 is a perfect example! Nominal impedance from Infinity is 8ohm, but AH measurements clearly indicated that these should have been rated as 4 ohm.

Back then, my old bottom of the line $200 Denon AVR had no problem at all powering the P362 in my open 18x20x10 room.

 

[slipperybidness]

Back then, my old bottom of the line $200 Denon AVR had no problem at all powering the P362 in my open 18x20x10 room.

Yup, not surprised in the least!

But, when you hook them to a TUBE amp and need to do IMPEDANCE MATCHING, it's a different story!

 

[fmw]

Personally, I don't trust the nominal impedance numbers in the slightest, if they are published by the manufacturer.

Nevertheless they are a better figure to use than minimum impedance.

The Infinity P363 is a perfect example! Nominal impedance from Infinity is 8ohm, but AH measurements clearly indicated that these should have been rated as 4 ohm.
I noted a distinct improvement on my Dynaco ST-70 tube amp whenever I swapped to the 4ohm taps.

Ok, but beginners are using AV receivers. I drive speakers with a 4 ohm nominal impedance with a bottom of the line Pioneer AV receiver in my bedroom. I can play it loud enough to drive myself out of the room with no overheating problems. The reason is that i don't get anywhere near full output power.

I tend to play it safe and look at the minimum impedance. If you really want to play it safe, then just get an amp that is 2 ohm stable.

That is your choice. Nothing wrong with it. But it is confusing for a beginner who will not encounter any problems with any modern AVR.

Anyway, it's just a difference in approach and/or philosophy. I was mostly just trying to make my response as simple as possible for the OP noob.

I agree that having these types of problems for home audio is rare. And for the T1 that the OP is questioning---get an amp and go!

There you go.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

IMO, power is usually "overrated". I think most AVRs can power most speakers just fine in most living rooms size 18x20x10.

And if the sound isn't good enough, it's something else (lack of bass, placement, source, etc.), not the AVR or lack of power.