Was Dr.Toole referring to ML?

[shrik87]

Maybe this was posted before.

Went through this video on youtube and there was a point where Dr Toole was referring to his findings on some speakers although no names were taken. But all fingers are pointing to ML for the speaker with the worst frequency response curves(1:03:40)

also does anyone know what are those 1800 $ pair speakers are?

I am new so i cant link the video but its in youtube with below reference

/watch?v=zrpUDuUtxPM

 

[Locoweed]

Probably the M-L EM-ESL speakers that were that price awhile ago. Graphs & curves are not everything. Go by your ears & what you like.

FYI, I have a pair of EM-ESL's & think they are great. Go to Amazon & read reviews.

 

[shrik87]

yeah i agree. But I was shocked looking at that data, considering how expensive ML speakers are. Could be a weakness of an electrostat. But I was wondering whats the purpose to build something complex which makes it expensive but performs worse than much inexpensive ones(at least on paper). Maybe its the brand image and target audience.

I would like to know what those 1800$/ pr speakers were. I am guessing it will also have good reviews on amazon.

 

[shadyJ]

I don't know much about dipole speakers like the MLs, but I am not so sure they should be judged by the measurements that monopole speakers are typically judged against. I am not sure how the response sums up at the listening position, which is what counts most in the end.

 

[TLS Guy]

I don't know much about dipole speakers like the MLs, but I am not so sure they should be judged by the measurements that monopole speakers are typically judged against. I am not sure how the response sums up at the listening position, which is what counts most in the end.

They do sound awful if you listen.

It is absolutely impossible to integrate a moving coil monopole speaker with with a dipole panel.

Peter Walker tried for years. The only solution is a dipole bottom end. He worked with Gradient of Finland to come up with a fairly decent solution.

The problem is you just can't get round the problem of matching a dipole radiation pattern and a boxed speaker which transition from a half space to a whole space radiator. There is NO solution for this.

Every time I hear MLs, except the full range panels, I just hear that panel woofer transition the whole time. To me it just sticks out like a sore thumb, which it is.

If you are going to use electrostatic panels they need to be huge or you need lots of them. Then you will get decent bass.

In the SME demo room at Steyning Sussex, they use four Quad ESL 69 per side on a custom frame. Sounds wonderful, with plenty of bass. The speakers are modded also.

 

[shadyJ]

They do sound awful if you listen.

It is absolutely impossible to integrate a moving coil monopole speaker with with a dipole panel.

Peter Walker tried for years. The only solution is a dipole bottom end. He worked with Gradient of Finland to come up with a fairly decent solution.

The problem is you just can't get round the problem of matching a dipole radiation pattern and a boxed speaker which transition from a half space to a whole space radiator. There is NO solution for this.

Every time I hear MLs, except the full range panels, I just hear that panel woofer transition the whole time. To me it just sticks out like a sore thumb, which it is.

If you are going to use electrostatic panels they need to be huge or you need lots of them. Then you will get decent bass.

In the SME demo room at Steyning Sussex, they use four Quad ESL 69 per side on a custom frame. Sounds wonderful, with plenty of bass. The speakers are modded also.

I have heard the ML Neoliths which use a couple of 15" woofers, I thought they sounded very good, but I wasn't listening for anything wrong with them. They may have a low enough crossover point where any transition would be difficult to notice. The best dipole panel speakers I have heard were Sound Labs Majestics, amazing speakers with fantastic bass although they are full panel speakers, but they are just huge, and very expensive. There are some very good non-panel dipole speakers, like the upper end stuff from Legacy. The V and Aeris seems to me to be a bizarre design, but I can not deny they sounded great to my ears.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Probably the M-L EM-ESL speakers that were that price awhile ago. Graphs & curves are not everything. Go by your ears & what you like.

FYI, I have a pair of EM-ESL's & think they are great. Go to Amazon & read reviews.

Well, while not everything, they do carry a huge weight of things.
Reviews by biased listeners? What value is that??