How much power do I need?

[fmw]

Okay. Well, here is the deal....

I dont have an internet cable in the area of my system, so I have to rely on wifi. I was thinking about going with the Denon 4520CI, but it doesnt have wifi. In this case, airplay would be useless to me, correct?

In this case, I'll go with the X4100 because it does have wifi. Am I understanding correctly? I had really narrowed it down to between these two avr's.

If your receiver has an ethernet port, you should be able to connect a WiFi access point to it.

 

[highfigh]

If your receiver has an ethernet port, you should be able to connect a WiFi access point to it.

Nope. An access point connects to a router, which distributes IP addresses. An AVR/TV/BD player with an ethernet port could be connected to a bridge or repeater, but not an access point (if you're referring to the usual type.

 

[highfigh]

Airplay can be funny sometimes as I have a Yamaha RX-V673 and it can connect to a phone through airplay but the MacBooks don't seem to find it, which is intensely irritating so I just stick to using wires.

Your AVR and phone aren't using a Guest network, are they? My router from ATT U-Verse doesn't always transmit the main WiFi at full strength, so the guest WiFi ends up being the one some of my devices connect to (actually, ALL of the network gear I have received from ATT has been crap, and I'm really tired of doing the troubleshooting for them). I try to control a Roku of use my printer and it doesn't work, then I look at the SSID (network name) and I see the iPhone or laptop is conected to the guest network.

 

[fmw]

Nope. An access point connects to a router, which distributes IP addresses. An AVR/TV/BD player with an ethernet port could be connected to a bridge or repeater, but not an access point (if you're referring to the usual type.

Yes. I meant it in a generic way. Is it not possible to connect a router to a receiver?

 

[highfigh]

Okay. Well, here is the deal....

I dont have an internet cable in the area of my system, so I have to rely on wifi. I was thinking about going with the Denon 4520CI, but it doesnt have wifi. In this case, airplay would be useless to me, correct?

In this case, I'll go with the X4100 because it does have wifi. Am I understanding correctly? I had really narrowed it down to between these two avr's.

You can use the WiFi, but if the signal isn't strong at the AVR's location, it may be slow and flakey. However, the X4100 also has Bluetooth, so that would allow you to stream to it.

 

[fmw]

I assumed there was a router somewhere in the house. My house has three of them. But if it won't work then it won't work.

 

[highfigh]

Yes. I meant it in a generic way. Is it not possible to connect a router to a receiver?

It's the best way to connect a receiver to a router but the (typical) AP is another WiFi antenna for the router, not for something that's trying to connect TO the router.

I'm being picky about the wording because it seems like a fairly logical way to connect the two, but it may save time and frustration for someone by being very specific and since networking is so enjoyable when the details of how it works are lacking,.......

An Airport Express could work for this, but not if it's one of the older ones they don't work on Windows 7 or later and I don't think they work with newer versions of iOS.

 

[fmw]

It's the best way to connect a receiver to a router but the (typical) AP is another WiFi antenna for the router, not for something that's trying to connect TO the router.

I'm being picky about the wording because it seems like a fairly logical way to connect the two, but it may save time and frustration for someone by being very specific and since networking is so enjoyable when the details of how it works are lacking,.......

An Airport Express could work for this, but not if it's one of the older ones they don't work on Windows 7 or later and I don't think they work with newer versions of iOS.

I have an access point (not a router) in my office. It is connected to a switch that is hard wired to the ethernet. I wonder how it knows which router to serve.

 

[highfigh]

If the AVR and router are on the same circuit (breaker), a network over powerline adapter set can work, too. I tried Actiontec and that puked, but the TrendNet seems to work pretty well, although the house where I installed them is very old and I suspect the wiring is causing some issues with stability. Belkin makes them, as well as others. This way, running new cabling is unnecessary and the AVR, BD player, Smart TV can be connected to the adapter on the AV equipment end. If multiple pieces need to connect via ethernet cable, a network switch can go between the Network Over Powerline piece and everything else wired to the switch.

 

[highfigh]

I have an access point (not a router) in my office. It is connected to a switch that is hard wired to the ethernet. I wonder how it knows which router to serve.

The AP is just like the WiFi in the router (if the router has it) and is basically acting as an antenna for the router. The router acts like a security guard or the bouncer at the door of a club with a list for who goes in and out and if more than one person tries to go in while someone else is trying to go out, the wired connection sees collisions, but doesn't stop them because it knows the people will make another attempt ASAP. A WiFi connection causes someone to stop while the other passes through and that's the reason WiFi is always slower than a wired connection. It's slower, but still fast enough for anything an AV system needs to do.

An access point isn't actually doing the routing unless it's a router and the main modem/router (often referred to as the 'gateway') has been set to disable routing (usually, there's a way to select 'Disable NAT') or the peripheral router that's acting as an access point has been set to Bridge Mode. That would be a wireless connection to the router's WiFi, but it's still acting as a proxy for the main router.

The way you're extending the network is preferred to using a bunch of WiFi equipment, spread around the building and makes for a much more seamless system.

 

[Ty Wayne]

Wait a minute, the 4520CI is a beast, almost as powerful as my previous 4308, and has extremely low distortions from 1W to rated output. You may want to just get the 4520CI, add a wifi adapter to it, or run a long CAT5 cable to hardwire it, or get one of those power line adapter, or get a wireless repeater modem. Any of these solutions are cheap to implement, say less than $70 for sure. Remember, the 4520CI was Denon's top model before the X7200W. It shares many features and possibly components with the Marantz AV8801, such as the higher end 32bit DACs. I posted its bench test power vs distortions graphs in the link below and you can see how it compares with other AVRs.

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/avr-distortions-from-entry-level-to-top-level-models.97159/

Source info for the 4520:
http://www.soundandvision.com/content/denon-avr-4520ci-av-receiver-test-bench#webMy0sEVYViK526.97

Again, the 4100 is a good choice but if you can get the 4520 for the same price or a little more then don't settle for less just because of the wifi issue that can be solved very easily and cheaply.

I can get a REFURB 4520CI at accessories4less for 800.00. Or, I can get a NEW X4100 for 750.00.
Also, Im seriously wanting to add an xpa-2, but Im still a bit undecided on whether I'll actually do it or not. Either way, Im not sure how much I'd benefit from an external amp coupled with either of these AVR's. My current Pioneer VSX-522k is 80 watts/channel. By adding either of these other AVR's, I'll be powering up, and even moreso with the 4520CI. So not sure I'd get an amp if I get the 4520.

Hell, I dont know what to do? Maybe I should just skip the amp altogether and look for an AVR that has a good amount of power like the 4520, but also has wifi??? Suggestions? I just want to keep it as simple as I can, for I am a simple fellow, LOL.

 

[Ty Wayne]

Also, could you point me to exactly what youre referring to when you mention a wifi adapter, or a wireless repeater modem? Am I looking for something that will plug into a usb port on the avr? Or will it plug into where the ethernet cable would normally plug into on the avr? Running a new cable isnt something I'd really have an interest in doing.

But having said all that, Im still not sure if I should settle for a refurb 4520 over a new x4100?

 

[herbu]

I don't know the proper term, but I've always called what I have an access point. It has a couple antennas and receives the wireless signal from our router. It also has 4-5 ethernet plugs on the back of it. I run ethernet cables from the "access point" to each of my HT components. So each component "thinks" it is hardwired. May be a one-stop solution for connecting all your HT stuff.

 

[PENG]

Also, could you point me to exactly what youre referring to when you mention a wifi adapter, or a wireless repeater modem? Am I looking for something that will plug into a usb port on the avr? Or will it plug into where the ethernet cable would normally plug into on the avr? Running a new cable isnt something I'd really have an interest in doing.

But having said all that, Im still not sure if I should settle for a refurb 4520 over a new x4100?

You don't have to run any long Cat5 cables if you use one of the 3 methods listed below. I am sure there are other adapters and options but I tell you the low cost TP-link adapters have been serving me well so far.

I am using the TP-Link TL-WPA4220 powerline adapter Kit for my 2 channel room where the wifi signal is weak.

http://www.amazon.com/TP-LINK-TL-WPA4220KIT-ADVANCED-Powerline-Extender/dp/B00HSQAIQU/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1451155670&sr=1-2&keywords=tplink+powerline

I also have the TP-link WA730RE wireless extender for my old Sony BDP-S380 that does not have wifi:

http://www.tp-link.com/en/products/details/cat-10_TL-WA730RE.html
http://www.amazon.com/TP-LINK-TL-WA730RE-Wireless-Extender-detachable/dp/B00416M48A/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1451155844&sr=1-1&keywords=tp-link+730re+repeater

The blu tooth adapter method should work well too, just not sure about audio quality.

http://www.cnet.com/products/logitech-wireless-speaker-adapter-bluetooth-wireless-audio-receiver-series/2/

Of the 3 alternatives listed above, I think the Powerline adapter is the best. It gives you both Ethernet and wifi coverage in area where the wifi signal may be weak and you don't want to run long wires to the router.
Setup is very easy, pretty much plug and play. I mean you only need to read a few lines in the mult page instruction and you will be up and running.

The wireless extender does require some basic knowledge to set up successfully. Once set up though, even the cheap WA730RE has been rock solid for a couple of years now. It does lower your speed to half because of the repeater nature. It is still fast enough for Netflix. With the Powerline adapter you get to keep the full speed.

 

[PENG]

TY Wayne: I just realize your are not the OP, so if you want to discuss more about Airplay and your AVR option you may want to start your own thread, before the OP start wondering.

 

[Ty Wayne]

TY Wayne: I just realize your are not the OP, so if you want to discuss more about Airplay and your AVR option you may want to start your own thread, before the OP start wondering.

Yup. Sorry to OP for hijacking his thread! Didnt mean to do that!

Cont. discussion here:
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/receiver-upgrade-help.95957/page-5#post-1110225

 

[dp412]

Yup. Sorry to OP for hijacking his thread! Didnt mean to do that!

Cont. discussion here:
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/receiver-upgrade-help.95957/page-5#post-1110225

That's alright; I had my questions answered and am very happy with the Yamaha RX-A820.

Thanks to everyone for the help!

 

[Ty Wayne]

That's alright; I had my questions answered and am very happy with the Yamaha RX-A820.

Thanks to everyone for the help!

Yeah, I felt like you had your questions answered and that's the only reason I chimed in with questions. However, its still better not to clutter your thread up with my questions. You might want to come back here later to talk about your product. Glad your happy with your avr!

 

[DeadPhishCheeseUmphreys]

The difference between 75 watts per channel and 150 watts per channel is 3 db. I consider that trivial. You are free to consider it significant if you wish. Sorry, I stand by what I said.

Well I'm confused as all hell! I've had an Awia ~75 per channel, Kenwood 95 per, Onkoyo 135 per. Running each at about 70-80% power, each got my speakers a considerable amount louder. I can't measure db's but it was significant.

 

[fmw]

Well I'm confused as all hell! I've had an Awia ~75 per channel, Kenwood 95 per, Onkoyo 135 per. Running each at about 70-80% power, each got my speakers a considerable amount louder. I can't measure db's but it was significant.

You had no way to know what 70 to 80% of available power is without measurements. I would suggest you never got anywhere near that much.