Yamaha Aventage or Marantz ?

[Peter Matt]

Hello

I am new to AV receiver. I had earlier used some hifi systems and HTib's. I m looking to move and get a very good audiophile quality receiver and speakers. I did some basic research and came to choose between these 2 brands. I read a lot about new Yamaha Aventage series receivers which has symmetrical amp design,extra foot and good ESS DAC'S but couldn't find much on marantz. My Budget is 1000-1500$. I usually like laid back kind of soft sounds. My preference is music more than movie. Whats your suggestions i dont want to go with hype surrounding either yamaha aventage/marantz.

 

[ematthews]

To me. Marantz has a little warmer sound and will sound better to me than the Yamaha for music. Yamaha will have a little brighter top end... This is all said with out the EQ settings for audio only. As for using it as a HT receiver, you can not go wrong with either. I have read that Yamaha is tops for dependability.
I side with Marantz.....

 

[fmw]

My suggestion is that sound quality is not a good reason to choose an AV receiver. The only differences between them are the room calibration routines. Just pick one that provides for manual adjustment and you can have any sound quality you want. The reason to choose an AV receiver is features - capabilities you need but do not have. No features at all are required for music. I think you are buying way more receiver than you need at that price point. $300-$500 will buy more than you need. Choose whatever makes you happy. In the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter a whit.

 

[Peter Matt]

Here is my thing.I had been to best buy magnolia Home Theatre demo where i auditioned both marantz and yamaha aventage. One thing i noticed immediately was sound on marantz was good compared to yamaha(same source material & speakers). Also sales guy recommended if you are totally for music like (70%music - 30%movies) there is no match to marantz at 1000-1500$ price range. so further research on both brands gave me some insight into yamaha & marantz and mid-range usually has better DAC and amplifiers. So i really dont know which has bright and which has warm sound. My one audition at best buy didn't gave me confidence on which one to buy. Agreed features are main distinguishing factor for buying a receiver but i m not convinced that all receivers sound same.

 

[fmw]

They don't all sound same unless you defeat the room calibration. Brightness and darkness of presentation is a matter of equalization. Without it, you would be unlikely to identify one from the other. With it, the result will differ from brand and model and, of course, the room being calibrated - to say nothing of the speakers in question. How it will react to your room and speakers is something you cannot determine at Best Buy. Get one that allows manual adjustment if you are worried about it.

If you like the Marantz, then buy the Marantz. Nothing at all wrong with that. I was mostly suggesting that your budget is probably too high for your application. That money is better spent on speakers where the real sound quality resides.

 

[Peter Matt]

They don't all sound same unless you defeat the room calibration. Brightness and darkness of presentation is a matter of equalization. Without it, you would be unlikely to identify one from the other. With it, the result will differ from brand and model and, of course, the room being calibrated - to say nothing of the speakers in question. How it will react to your room and speakers is something you cannot determine at Best Buy. Get one that allows manual adjustment if you are worried about it.

If you like the Marantz, then buy the Marantz. Nothing at all wrong with that. I was mostly suggesting that your budget is probably too high for your application. That money is better spent on speakers where the real sound quality resides.

Thanks fmw. I understand what you saying here. At the best can you tell what receiver&speaker combination would best suit my need. the reason why was ready to spend extra more on receiver was i wasn't sure what would account for good sound overall. As i told i just researched on aventage/marantz and was impressed by what aventage receivers had in them or way importance was given to utmost build quality & DAC.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I would get the $1500 Denon X4100 on sale (47% off) @ Amazon for $800 brand new. This AVR will be out of stock soon at this price.

http://www.amazon.com/Denon-AVR-X4100W-Network-Receiver-Bluetooth/dp/B00MK3BZAE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1450210166&sr=8-1&keywords=denon+x4100

 

[fmw]

Thanks fmw. I understand what you saying here. At the best can you tell what receiver&speaker combination would best suit my need. the reason why was ready to spend extra more on receiver was i wasn't sure what would account for good sound overall. As i told i just researched on aventage/marantz and was impressed by what aventage receivers had in them or way importance was given to utmost build quality & DAC.

I'm trying to steer you into the notion that what makes the most sense in terms of sound quality are the speakers and, of course, the room acoustics. Sorry, I don't make specific recommendations of products I haven't owned and used myself. Obviously think speakers are important and AV receivers are way way less important. Pretty hard to go wrong with any of the modern ones.

 

[3db]

Here is my thing.I had been to best buy magnolia Home Theatre demo where i auditioned both marantz and yamaha aventage. One thing i noticed immediately was sound on marantz was good compared to yamaha(same source material & speakers). Also sales guy recommended if you are totally for music like (70%music - 30%movies) there is no match to marantz at 1000-1500$ price range. so further research on both brands gave me some insight into yamaha & marantz and mid-range usually has better DAC and amplifiers. So i really dont know which has bright and which has warm sound. My one audition at best buy didn't gave me confidence on which one to buy. Agreed features are main distinguishing factor for buying a receiver but i m not convinced that all receivers sound same.

Looks like the audiophile myth is still very much alive with different AVRs having different sounds when not using their room correction facilities. I can't begin to tell you how much I disagree with this assertion especially when one looks at the specs for both pre-amp and amp sections with nearly identical ruler flat frequency response beyond the hearing spectrum. It doesn't add up.

 

[slipperybidness]

Thanks fmw. I understand what you saying here. At the best can you tell what receiver&speaker combination would best suit my need. the reason why was ready to spend extra more on receiver was i wasn't sure what would account for good sound overall. As i told i just researched on aventage/marantz and was impressed by what aventage receivers had in them or way importance was given to utmost build quality & DAC.

Yammy vs. Marantz.....flip a coin....you win either way!

 

[RichB]

Looks like the audiophile myth is still very much alive with different AVRs having different sounds when not using their room correction facilities. I can't begin to tell you how much I disagree with this assertion especially when one looks at the specs for both pre-amp and amp sections with nearly identical ruler flat frequency response beyond the hearing spectrum. It doesn't add up.

I have a Yamaha Aventage RX-A820 driver Revel M20's.
There is a obvious change in the sound when switching between Pure and Straight mode with no room correction and all tone controls flat. This is true of all receivers I have owned.

To me, that indicates that differences in sound quality can occur when additional circuitry and DSP processing is engaged. That is not good or bad since there are many benefits to DSP's.
There is no way to know for certain when a modern receiver, (Japanese in particular) are using DSP's. Selection options such as channel mapping, bi-amp, and base+LFE are likely handled by DSP processing.

If you can hear any difference between Pure (Pure Direct) and Direct/Straight modes on your receiver then you might consider why that is?

If you can hear such a difference, then consider that "AVR's sound the same except room correction" might not a complete assessment.

- Rich

 

[fmw]

Looks like the audiophile myth is still very much alive with different AVRs having different sounds when not using their room correction facilities. I can't begin to tell you how much I disagree with this assertion especially when one looks at the specs for both pre-amp and amp sections with nearly identical ruler flat frequency response beyond the hearing spectrum. It doesn't add up.

I'll go out on a limb and suggest that all AV receivers use op amps in the final stage. These devices have no audible distortion, noise or variance from a linear frequency response. All the audiophile concern about the sound of amplifiers disappeared quite a while ago. I still have a couple of amps laying around with discreet finals but it would be nearly impossible to find an audible difference between any two products using op amps.

 

[fmw]

I have a Yamaha Aventage RX-A820 driver Revel M20's.
There is a obvious change in the sound when switching between Pure and Straight mode with no room correction and all tone controls flat. This is true of all receivers I have owned.

Then room calibration is evident in one mode and not in the other despite your attempt to defeat it. How would you explain an audible difference if it isn't due to equalization? The only other option would be a change in SPL with the switching of modes. I can't think of any other possibility. Certainly the amp hasn't changed. The change had to occur in the processor and processor are designed to alter the sound.

 

[RichB]

Then room calibration is evident in one mode and not in the other despite your attempt to defeat it. How would you explain an audible difference if it isn't due to equalization? The only other option would be a change in SPL with the switching of modes. I can't think of any other possibility. Certainly the amp hasn't changed. The change had to occur in the processor and processor are designed to alter the sound.

I can't say why since I did not design the product. REQ is definitely not engaged, I have done this after factory reset. Processors process, sometimes more sometimes less. Processing can change the sound, hopefully upon the direct control of the user.

They are designed to sell at a price-point.

- Rich

 

[fmw]

They are designed to sell at a price-point.

- Rich

Sure but that doesn't explain how two modes can sound different with no difference in the modes. There has to be a difference.

 

[3db]

I have a Yamaha Aventage RX-A820 driver Revel M20's.
There is a obvious change in the sound when switching between Pure and Straight mode with no room correction and all tone controls flat. This is true of all receivers I have owned.

To me, that indicates that differences in sound quality can occur when additional circuitry and DSP processing is engaged. That is not good or bad since there are many benefits to DSP's.
There is no way to know for certain when a modern receiver, (Japanese in particular) are using DSP's. Selection options such as channel mapping, bi-amp, and base+LFE are likely handled by DSP processing.

If you can hear any difference between Pure (Pure Direct) and Direct/Straight modes on your receiver then you might consider why that is?

If you can hear such a difference, then consider that "AVR's sound the same except room correction" might not a complete assessment.

- Rich

My bad. I meant all DSP turned off and running the AVR in pure direct mode.

 

[3db]

I'll go out on a limb and suggest that all AV receivers use op amps in the final stage. These devices have no audible distortion, noise or variance from a linear frequency response. All the audiophile concern about the sound of amplifiers disappeared quite a while ago. I still have a couple of amps laying around with discreet finals but it would be nearly impossible to find an audible difference between any two products using op amps.

I wont say OP Amps but perhaps Darlington pairs

 

[RichB]

Sure but that doesn't explain how two modes can sound different with no difference in the modes. There has to be a difference.

I suppose they would not provide two nodes with no difference in modes, unless marketing got involved.
Then, all bets are off

In my experience, there are audible differences when listening to these modes. I can't tell you why.
The designers might not know why, although, I suspect they do.

You don't have to buy into to this, but I think it is easily observable. If a reader of this thread has also observed this, then it is clear that all AVRs do not sound alike if you plan on using anything but pure direct mode.

Also, LCPM over HDMI is, umm, special

- Rich

 

[PENG]

Looks like the audiophile myth is still very much alive with different AVRs having different sounds when not using their room correction facilities. I can't begin to tell you how much I disagree with this assertion especially when one looks at the specs for both pre-amp and amp sections with nearly identical ruler flat frequency response beyond the hearing spectrum. It doesn't add up.

Agree, I owned products from both, there is no such thing as Marantz warm, Yamaha bright not if compared in pure direct mode. Old hearsay got passed around and around, that biased people prior to their auditioning, that's probably why, or dealers failed to demo them in pure direct mode.

 

[PENG]

My bad. I meant all DSP turned off and running the AVR in pure direct mode.

But I knew what you meant.