I'm not sure I can get there from here...PC 7.1 to amp/reciever...

[kiaya611]

I have been designing and buying components to build a computer for audio and video editing as well as general use. I don't have a fortune to spend, so I have tried to make judicious decisions. I wanted a machine that was fast and would handle anything I would throw at it. I am not a professional, so I am not needing that level of components, but I have had computers for 20 years now and before I became disabled, I did it for a living.

Anyway, I wanted to be able to have very good audio and UHD video. the video part was pretty straight forward, but the audio part is presenting an issue. I have both on-board 7.1 digital audio and was considering a dedicated sound card. I recently bough a Harman Kardon AVR240 and was going to use the Altec Lancing THX speakers and sub (adding 2 speakers from my 5.1 system to give me the 8 channels. Well, The amp/receiver has 7.1 built in and the computer has it as well...that would seem all good, but the issue I have is that the amp only has digital optical and digital coax in...the rest of the inputs are analog. My hope was that I would be able to have complete digital until it left the amp and went to the speakers before it changed to analog.

I know that digital optical does no have the bandwidth to handle 7.1 and now it seems to be the same with digital audio.

I guess I was hoping that someone might have a good (and not deadly expensive) idea on how to get the full bandwidth from the computer's sound card (not yet chosen) to the amp.

This is not my area of expertise, so I don't know all of the options that there might be out there. I was originally thinking that it would be a simple matter of connecting the output of the audio card tot he input of the amp and voilà I would have my 7.1 digital audio so I would have all of the formats that went with that. Apparently not so.

So...since the AVR240 doesn't have an HDMI input, which seems to be the only way to get the necessary bandwidth to handle true 7.1 (8 digital channels), I am going to venture a guess that if I really want to do this, I am going to have to get an amp/receiver, etc that has an HDMI input and 8 channels out (one for each speaker including the sub.

I know I have net mentioned too many specific brands, but part of that is because I have not chosen a sound card yet, as that was (in my mind) where I could make the connection between the pc and the amp happen the way I wanted/needed.

If anyone has any suggestions to get from where I am at to where I want to be without bankrupting me, please let me know.

Thank you for your ear and any suggestions you may give.

Best wishes,

Steven

 

[TheWarrior]

Hi! Tell us about the room! Provide dimensions and listening distance, please.

Are you using this computer at a desk? And will watch movies from that short distance? Or are you wanting it to also be a home theater that you can watch from your couch?

 

[kiaya611]

Hello,

I will be at my desk and the monitor is a UHD 28" monitor for editing and a 42" HD monitor for viewing. The room is 10.5' X 13'. The walls are '70s wood paneling and the floor is 1940s linoleum. My desk is a corner desk. It is pretty basic really. When I used to watch either movies or even TV, it would be in my living room and I also have an older 5.1 system in there and a 43" HDTV. I don't spend much time in there anymore, so I pretty much live in front of my computer. I am planning to have the smaller monitor on an arm mount so I can swing it out of the way to watch the bigger screen. I wanted a 40" curved screen that I saw at the store and was amazed that at a reasonable distance, the curve isn't a gimmick as I originally thought it was. The trick it the viewing angle and the viewing distance...but there is truly a notable difference...but that is for another time as it is out of my price bracket for that size.

The computer is more less designed like a gaming computer (high performance), so it should handle anything I throw at it. It is just this one area that has stumped me. I can place the speakers anywhere I need to, to get the best and more immersive effect, as there is only one other computer in the room in the opposite corner. No real room for a couch in here and even if I could get one in here, it would be too far from the large monitor (based on my experience with placement/viewing distances to get the best effect.

 

[TheWarrior]

@kiaya611 Ok, and why did you buy a receiver to power PC speakers? Altec Lansing only makes 'media' speakers that are usually powered by an amp in the bass module. So are you wanting to have PC speakers for use at the desk, and then use the receiver to power home theater speakers?

 

[kiaya611]

I think that if I could squeeze out a bit more money than I have allotted, I could get a Pioneer Elite 7.2-Channel SC-71 A/V Receiver. That would handle the HDMI issues and allow all of the formats that I would like to have available. Just a thought. It's promo video looks good anyway...I, of course would have to do more research.

 

[TheWarrior]

I think that if I could squeeze out a bit more money than I have allotted, I could get a Pioneer Elite 7.2-Channel SC-71 A/V Receiver. That would handle the HDMI issues and allow all of the formats that I would like to have available. Just a thought. It's promo video looks good anyway...I, of course would have to do more research.

Altec Lansing speakers cannot be connected to a receiver.

 

[kiaya611]

Well, I already had the Altec Lancing speakers with a previous pc and i liked the sub in particular. I did also get a 8 channel set of Onkyo speakers...but they came with the receiver I bought. I have never heard them, so I am not sure if they are good, bad or what. I just know that as far as size and my use to date, the Altec Lancing speakers are not bad at all. I do a lot of work with pipe organs and the frequency range is extreme and although, I don't have the equipment to handle the entire range, I get a very good representation from the AL speakers. I was just trying to utilize as much of what I already had where possible. I know that studio monitors would be MUCH better, but they also come at a heavy cost...so I am trying to play a balancing act. I don't want to resort to "trickery" as some of the boards do, instead of having actual power and range, but I also don't have bottomless pockets.

 

[kiaya611]

Ok, I am responding one message behind, it seems...is that due to the their ohm rating...or do they need a pre-amp? I know that they originally when through the sub as you mentioned, but I was thinking of them as just "small speakers...that might be naive, but I guess I hadn't gotten that far as they have worked for me for 5 years now. I admittedly have them plugged in as they were meant to be plugged in (to the sub), but I didn't think past that. Anything I looked at for straight 8-channel Home Theater speaker sets were extremely expensive (at least anything of any quality).

It seems as though I have fallen down completely as far as the sound end of things here...

 

[TheWarrior]

Then lets start at the beginning. I think you would notice a significant increase in sound quality with proper monitors. Even just a pair. I don't think you need surround sound to master pipe organs...

These for example: http://www.sweetwater.com/c405--PreSonus--Active_Monitors are fantastic. Pick your price point, determine a budget for a sub.

 

[TheWarrior]

Ok, I am responding one message behind, it seems...is that due to the their ohm rating...or do they need a pre-amp? I know that they originally when through the sub as you mentioned, but I was thinking of them as just "small speakers...that might be naive, but I guess I hadn't gotten that far as they have worked for me for 5 years now. I admittedly have them plugged in as they were meant to be plugged in (to the sub), but I didn't think past that. Anything I looked at for straight 8-channel Home Theater speaker sets were extremely expensive (at least anything of any quality).

It seems as though I have fallen down completely as far as the sound end of things here...

Thankfully you did not attempt to connect them, those little Altec's would have eventually destroyed themselves. PC speakers operate on tenths of watts, where as a home theater receiver will put out a hundred watts!

 

[KEW]

Actually, it looks like the sc-71 has pre-amp outputs which could accommodate the Altec's, unless I'm missing something.

 

[TheWarrior]

Actually, it looks like the sc-71 has pre-amp outputs which could accommodate the Altec's, unless I'm missing something.

These 'multi channel' media speakers all connect to their sub for power. So you'd have to plug the sub in to a single channel preout, hoping to get 7.1 sound. Nooooope. ;-)

 

[kiaya611]

Hi Kurt, I need to look further into that unit as I just came across it. Sometimes, I am the worst "Googler"...my dad was always a genius at search queries, but he used DOS syntax (which Google used to use for searches. Now they have changed things to make it "easier" and in some ways it is, but if you were used to the older way, it is harder and he is no longer around, so I so muddle through)...sorry...off topic.

Just to give you a bit of background, as it might give you a better picture of what I was hoping to achieve (not sure if it is possible, but I am in a learning curve)...

Since I am so interested in pipe organs and reproducing their sound, I base a lot of things on the frequency range of a pipe organ. Now this creates issues when it come to sound equipment because of the extreme range of frequencies a large pipe organ can produce.

In the best of worlds, as far as sound goes, the optimum range would be from 8Hz (the sound of low C on a 64' rank [as no organ has been built with an actual 128' rank which would produce 4Hz at low C...[you can get that frequency in a resultant 5th; eg. The only complete sub-subcontra fifth in the whole world are to be found at USA, Atlantic City, Convention Hall: Diaphone-Dulzian 42 2/3' (Ext. of 64'). This makes the Convention Hall organ the only one able to produce an acoustic 128' (64' + 42 2/3' = 4 Hz difference tone on C) from: http://www.die-orgelseite.de/kurioses_e.htm .]) to about 15,360Hz. Since human hearing goes up to 20KHz, then in the optimal situation, I would need equipment that would handle frequencies from 4Hz to 20KHz. As a comparison, the highest frequency on a piano is 4186Hz.

Now, although, it is possible to create sound equipment that would produce the full range of a pipe organ, it would be astronomically expensive and in actuality, it would almost never be utilized, since pipe organ music produce in recording it, so the old saying about the "weakest link" applies as if you have anywhere in a system that can't handle everything (from the recording to the transmission to your equipment), it would be unreasonable to try to capture every tone a pipe organ can produce.

Over 90% of the organs on earth only go down to 32' (16Hz), so that would be where I would set the low mark.

I hope you don't mind the "lesson" in the pipe organ, but I wanted you to get some aspect of one thing that I need to be able to do. I also want to be able to play (and record) 4K video and take advantage of the new digital audio formats, i.e. Dolby True HD, HTS, etc.

Like many/most of you, I want to be immersed in what I am watching and listening to. If I am playing a movie where it has been recorded using the newer formats, I would like to take advantage of them with equipment that can "decode" everything.

A lot of what I wrote would be the absolute extreme of the best sound range I could ever want/need. I just don't have the pocketbook to be able to buy that kind of equipment. That is one reason why I want the 8-channel system, so I can be immersed in sound that has been mixed and processed properly to give you that "spacial" feeling.

I hope that information is helpful in showing you what I would like to try to create (within my budget.

 

[kiaya611]

Hi Warrior,

I definitely get that. That is why I was going to connect the speakers (including the sub as all separate speakers). My flaw was not to realize that these speaker are not designed for amp/receiver use. Like I said earlier, I am on a learning curve. I have had to do the same with ALL of the components of m new computer...getting components that will handle what I need without just going out and buying the most expensive, new components available.

I can easily Ebay or Craigslist all of my older equipment. Everything is in excellent shape and working perfectly.

I just need to get appropriate speakers and an appropriate amp/receiver. Some of these things, I can buy over time and others are needed now.

I checked out the link you provided to Sweetwater and looked around. The things I was seeing were more designed for professional studio work. Since I am not planning to go to that level, I need to find a balance. For instance, that SC71 looks like it would work well with m scenario. I have found it for decent prices as well. that theoretically leaves speakers. Sine I want and 8-channel system, that is a fair amount of speakers and raises the ability of the sub to produce extremely low frequencies. There aren't a ton of subs that will even go down to 16Hz and he ones that do, are as much or more than my entire computer.

 

[kiaya611]

Which receiver is better (more powerful/versatile)if I want surround sound from my PC [primarily]? The Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV or the Pioneer Elite PC 71?

 

[kiaya611]

I apologize for my lack of knowledge, but could you tell me which receiver is better, the
Pioneer Elite SC-81 7.2-Channel Class D3 Network A/V Receiver with HDM or the
Pioneer Elite SC-71 1050W 7.1-Ch. A/V Home Theater Receiver?

 

[TheWarrior]

I apologize for my lack of knowledge, but could you tell me which receiver is better, the
Pioneer Elite SC-81 7.2-Channel Class D3 Network A/V Receiver with HDM or the
Pioneer Elite SC-71 1050W 7.1-Ch. A/V Home Theater Receiver?

Please refer back to my previous link with Presonus monitors. Don't even worry about receivers for right now, cause multi channel is not your solution!

If you've been mastering organs with media speakers, just getting a pair of any of those monitors will make a 'night and day' difference.

That applies simply to your pipe organ mastering needs. For your surround sound home theater PC, you are limiting yourself when it comes to the new HD audio codecs. Your PC will need to have the correct sound card and HDMI version to match with current receivers. And then you need speakers and subs. Given your first couple posts, that sounds a bit out of the current budget. So I again refer back to my suggestion of getting a pair of active monitors, and then slowly building up!

 

[kiaya611]

Thank you for your advice. I will do some more looking around, as I am on a definite learning curve.

 

[TheWarrior]

Thank you for your advice. I will do some more looking around, as I am on a definite learning curve.

Totally! We're all on a learning curve around here, with the way new tech comes out, its impossible to always be 'current'. Just glad you are seeking advice before coming here telling us of your buyers remorse! Trust me, you are way ahead of the curve!

 

[kiaya611]

It is funny in a way, as this just started by wanting more RAM for my older computer. Before I knew it, I was building a completely new, high performance computer and since my thing is editing/listening to music and video, it just brought more and more into the picture. Sort of a "domino effect". I think I am aquiring very good building blocks to have a system that I will truly like and be able to use for the things I am into. I am going to Craigslist my old 5.1 Altec Lansing 5.1 system that came with my old computer as it is not really bad at all, but I wanted to upgrade everything so that is where the 7.1 idea came into all of this...also having a receiver that accepts HDMI so there is no loss like there would be with some older receivers that offer optical or coax only digital inputs. I checked out the studio monitors you suggested and the Presonas line looks really good.

I do have a questions though...since they list several Presonas speakers, I was thinking of the PreSonus Eris E44 speakers (they seem to be "middle of the road" as far as price). Since I am not as knowledgeable, I wanted to get your thoughts on these for my "front pair" so that as time goes on, I wouldn't be having to upgrade them immediately and then could either add to them or buy other front speakers and use them in other positions (rear, side, overhead, etc.) when I get to that point.

Thanks for your help,

Steven