Calibrate the sound on my SC-2022-k

[jebediah]

Well i gonna give this forum a try and hopefully i get my questions sorted out.
English is not my native language so have patience with me

It is like a year since i bought my first "real" home theater setup, and i am still running on a rough setup (distance, levels etc)

So let's start with what i have
*Pioneer SC-2022-k
*XTZ 93.22 - Front and center
*XTZ 93.21 MKII - Back
*XTZ 99 10.16 - Sub

Some days ago i started to read some guides and dummies to dig deeper into the calibration part, and in lack of a SPL meter i only have my two ears to sort it out.

There is some question mark, however.
Almost everyone claims that all speakers should be set to SMALL, it doesn't matter how big they are. But the fuzzy part is that some claims that the crossover on the receiver’s menu should be set to 80Hz, always, while other claims that 80Hz with LARGE speakers and 120Hz with small speakers are the best choice.


I also stubled upon this statement while reading.
-In almost all circumstances we recommend bypassing the subwoofer's internal bass management facilities in favor of the one found in your A/V receiver. You can do this either by engaging the LPF bypass switch (if available) or setting the crossover to its maximum setting.
Failing to disable your sub's internal crossover can cause excessive losses in the subwoofers passband thus degrading the sound quality when used in conjunction with your A/V receiver's bass management facilities. This is especially true if the crossover frequency of both the sub's LPF and your receiver's bass management are set to the same frequency. This is called cascading crossovers and should usually be avoided.

Only problem is that my subwoofer doesn't have a bypass switch or crossover settings, not what i know about anyway.

So that's my first questions, and more to come.
Hopefully you are able the read my crappy English

 

[jebediah]

Correct me if i'm wrong. Is the knob on the backside of the subwoofer called Frequency the same as Crossover?

 

[markw]

rules you read are not "always" suitable to all occasions. You set the receiver's crossover th what seems correct and let your ears determine what works best to YOUR ears. If you know your speakers only go to 100 or so, then set the crossover to 120, or higher if needed. But GENERALLY, the lowest crossover you can get away with, the better.

If your sub doesn't have a bypass switch, set it to the highest frequency possible.

Yes, Frequency would be the Crossover.

 

[jebediah]

Hi markw and thanks for the reply.
The thing is, if i set the frequency to the highest the subwoofer sounds really terrible. Almost like a normal speaker but with alot of bass. Voices and other sounds that doesn't belong to the sub are coming through.
First i thought it was the PLUS setting for the sub, but it doesn't matter if i only choose YES.
-SW – LFE signals and bass frequencies of channels set to SMALL are output from the subwoofer when YES is selected. Choose the PLUS setting if you want the subwoofer to output bass sound continuously or you
want deeper bass (the bass frequencies that would normally come out the front and center speakers are also
routed to the subwoofer). If you did not connect a subwoofer choose NO (the bass frequencies are output
from other speakers).

 

[Wellz]

Jebediah,
Are you sure that the rca wire is connected to the correct output on the receiver and the correct input on the subwoofer? The LFE channel should only be sending the lower bass frequencies to the sub. I realize this post is older so hopefully you have already sorted everything out.b

 

[jebediah]

Hi Wellz and thanks for the reply. But to answer your question, no. Due to work i have not really had the time to sort this matter out.
My reciever has two subwoofer output, subwoofer 1 and 2. Beside those i have the regular speaker wire output for subwoofer.

But i contacted the subwoofer manufacturer and i was told that this subwoofer doesn't have any LFE input, but to compensate this i just have to turn the frequence knob to max. But if i do that the bass becomes way to much.
There's just one question mark i can't understand. If i set the crossover to 80Hz in the reciever settings, then theoretical i shouldn't hear any different if i turn the crossover between 80Hz-250Hz on the subwoofer?

Can it be so simple that i'm using wrong cable? I only have a Supra Y-link cable, so is it possible just to connect one of those RCA cable in the left input, or should i buy a mono subcale instead?

 

[Wellz]

Hello Jebediah,

In you're case you should still be using just one of the subwoofer outputs from the receiver (Subwoofer 1) since that receiver is probably sending two induvidual signals and expecting feedback from two separate subs. If so, it uses the feedback to calibrate each sub based on the main seating position. You can start by connecting the wire to only one port on the sub.

Now answer me this.. are you using the MCACC calibration software in that receiver to do the bass management? If so, when you setup the mic at the main seating location and run the program it should be adjusting the gain so that it matches the output of the rest of your speakers.

One other thing, make sure that you not confusing the frequency knob on the sub with the Gain knob. When the sub manufacturer told you to set the frequency to the max, that was to allow your receiver to have access to the full range of frequencies of the sub, so that it could then align the sub based on the crossover setting that you indicated.
If you haven't already, you should read this write up which will help you understand the how's and why's on setting your sub. Take your time when reading it so you can get the best from it. Another great resource is the manual that came with your receiver. Pay special attention to the section on how to use the built in MCACC calibration program.
http://www.audioholics.com/subwoofer-setup/basic-subwoofer-setup

 

[jebediah]

Hi again.
Perhaps i was unclear in my previous post I'm only using Subwoofer output 1 from the reciever, but both left and right on the subwoofer.

I've tried the automatic MCACC once, and probably never again. The sound was messed up after the automatic calibration and the levels on ech speaker was either to high or to low.

 

[crossedover]

Hi again.
Perhaps i was unclear in my previous post I'm only using Subwoofer output 1 from the reciever, but both left and right on the subwoofer.

I've tried the automatic MCACC once, and probably never again. The sound was messed up after the automatic calibration and the levels on ech speaker was either to high or to low.

I would try again. Then report back your settings.

 

[Wellz]

Hi again.
Perhaps i was unclear in my previous post I'm only using Subwoofer output 1 from the reciever, but both left and right on the subwoofer.

I've tried the automatic MCACC once, and probably never again. The sound was messed up after the automatic calibration and the levels on ech speaker was either to high or to low.

My recommendations still stand, but lets try this first...
Here is a link to the english manual for your subwoofer: http://www.xtzhifi.com/product-assets/subwoofers/99w10.16-matt/manuals/99_w10_16_manual_eng.pdf

Based on what I read, it says to use either the left or right input jack on the back of the subwoofer if you have a single line coming from the AVR. If you use both it will increase the gain by +3db.
Next thing I would do is turn off EQ1, EQ2, and the Subsonic filter. After that, raise the gain knob to the half way point on the subwoofer. Now, turn the Frequency Knob all the way to High.

** Without any real detail about your room and speaker placement, I'm going to assume that you've already placed all of your speakers in the best location and proper distances from the main seating position. Hopefully this included you doing the Subcrawl to help you locate the best spot for the Subwoofer.

1. If you want to start from scratch to make sure that your previous MCACC calibration is NOT affecting your current sound, start by doing a Full Reset of the unit. If your SC-2022 works similar to my SC-95, then you can do this by turning off the receiver first, then press and hold the Enter button that is located behind the front panel. While you are holding down the Enter button, now press and hold the Standby button. After a few seconds, the unit will turn on, at this point you can release both buttons and you will have 10 seconds to select Reset. confirm by choosing OK and the unit will turn off. Now you're unit is back to factory settings which should have no calibration settings saved.

2. Here is where you can now choose how much you want to do yourself vs allowing the MCACC to help you do it. However, regardless of whether you use the MCACC or do it yourself, you will first need to go to the setup menu and select your speaker configuration. In this section you will let the AVR know how many speakers you have and what type they are. Make sure that you select "Subwoofer 1 Yes".

*If you choose to completely ignore the MCACC (which I don't recommend) then you will and should use at least and SPL meter to calibrate your system. Since you said that you don't have one, then if you have an Android phone or tablet (not sure if it's available for apple), you can download an App called JBLTools. This app includes an SPL Meter among other things. Use this app properly positioned at your main seating area in conjunction with the internal test tones from the SC-2022 to calibrate each speaker to 75db. you can find the test tones in the same section that you found the speaker selection.

Alternatively, you can go into the MCACC calibration and select the the Basic mode instead of Expert. This will do the job of calculating the distances and adjusting the gain of each speaker and subwoofer based on where you set the microphone during the calibration. The Basic mode will not EQ the speakers for you. Once the MCACC completes the basic calibration, you can go back to the Manual Speaker Settings (found within the Setup menu) and change the sizes of the speaker from Large to Small. Don't make any other changes at this point, now go ahead and listen to some music that you are familiar with and see if the sound is good.

Everything else that I could tell you about, you will find in this great video and write up done by Marshall Guthrie who is one of the members of the Audioholics team.

http://www.audioholics.com/home-theater-calibration/a-v-receiver-setup-crossover-distance-level-eq

Please take time to read this and view the video, and then if you have more questions, write them here.