TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
I completely agree, but pipe organs are so seldom used in rock music. A pity!
Yes, but who wants pop music when you have J.S. Bach. He is the greatest musician that ever lived and that is not debatable. He is.
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
Yes, but who wants pop music when you have J.S. Bach. He is the greatest musician that ever lived and that is not debatable. He is.
Not debatable? I dunno, Doc, I like Bach a lot, but when I think of the greatest music I've ever heard Beethoven comes to mind.
 
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PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Not debatable? I dunno, Doc, I like Bach a lot, but when I think of the greatest music I've ever heard Beethoven comes to mind.
Add Mendelssohn, Brahms, even Tchaikovsky to it, I would say it is highly debatable, just not with TLSG. Lots of people think Mozart is great too but his style is too recognizable and to me, for that reason alone, he is not the greatest.
 
F

fmw

Audioholic Ninja
The lowest frequencies in acoustic music are about 40Hz, and even a grand piano doesn't have much below 30Hz in sub-harmonics. Sub-30Hz sound is generally the realm of action movies and subharmonic synthesizers, but you said you did all music listening, so I'm not sure if one of these home theater super subs Shady is pointing you to is the right answer. Two of these JBL monsters will probably get you complaint calls from Argentina.
The lowest note on a piano is 27hz. The low B string on a 5 string bass is 31hz. The only instrument that goes any lower is the pipe organ and is rarely used even that low. If you are down 3 db at 27hz you have 99.999% of the music covered. Most LFE is above 30 hz. While lower frequencies are encountered, it doesn't happen often because few people have the equipment to reproduce anything under 30hz. Basically, 30hz is all you need. My own sub is down 3db at 25hz. It wouldn't even occur to me to worry about going any lower.
 
KenM10759

KenM10759

Audioholic Ninja
Where in the LF range does a double bassoon or Sousaphone run?
 
N

nicknewbie

Audioholic Intern
The lowest note on a piano is 27hz. The low B string on a 5 string bass is 31hz. The only instrument that goes any lower is the pipe organ and is rarely used even that low. If you are down 3 db at 27hz you have 99.999% of the music covered. Most LFE is above 30 hz. While lower frequencies are encountered, it doesn't happen often because few people have the equipment to reproduce anything under 30hz. Basically, 30hz is all you need. My own sub is down 3db at 25hz. It wouldn't even occur to me to worry about going any lower.
can you explain what you mean when you say "being down 3db" at 27 hz,....went way over my head sorry
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
IGNORING YOU now clown,....you internet big talkers make me laugh,....on the streets you would bow down to me
I wish someone on here lived close enough to keep an eye on this guy, we could start a pool on which happens first -
1) Nick loses his hearing, or
2) Nick ends up back in prison.

From the attitudes he has shown, it would seem both are inevitable.
 
crossedover

crossedover

Audioholic Chief
Nick take a pic of your room and post so others can give you good advice. Me Ive tried
 
N

nicknewbie

Audioholic Intern
CAN YOU DIG IT,,....when I said life is good now,....I meant ,"LIFE IS GOOD"
n 006.JPG
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Not debatable? I dunno, Doc, I like Bach a lot, but when I think of the greatest music I've ever heard Beethoven comes to mind.
It is not really debatable. Pretty much every musician puts Bach as the alpha and Omega point.

His output we have is enormous, and we believe 40% has been lost including one of his passions.

The invention of this man was enormous. The number of tunes he wrote enormous, and a high percentage of the time he has more then one tune running at once, two, three, four, five six, seven and even 8! All meshing together constructing glorious harmonies.

Unfortunately most only know his secular music. His greatest music is his liturgical music, his phenomenal output of Cantatas, the two great passions that survive, oratorios foe Christmas, Easter and Ascension, and of course the Great B Minor Mass.

Last Christmas my wife gave me the 56 CD collection of Sir John Elliot Gardener's year 2000 Bach pilgrimage with his Montiverdi Choir, orchestra and soloists. Sir John started this pilgrimage on Christmas Day 1999, and performed the cantatas written for the respective Sundays and Feasts throughout the liturgical year. He performed them in cathedrals and churches across Europe, ending his pilgrimage in New York. Other collections are arranged by BWV number which makes little sense. Sir John's performance are as usual full of bounce and drive. His period instrument group is second to none. It is really wonderful to have these masterpieces aligned to the liturgical year.

I have been following this pilgrimage this year. Bach wrote as a rule about three or four cantatas for each Sunday and Feast over his lifetime. These are just the ones that survive. The thing that strikes is the shear inventiveness and beauty. He had no set formulas. Each has its unique arrangements of instrumentation, order of chorals, choruses, arias, and recitatives. The incredible things is how everything interweaves. Often there will be multiple themes in the orchestra and once, with part of the choir singing a choral and part of the choir singing a chorus. Yet it all blends perfectly.

As an organist, and especially as a composer of music for the pipe organ, he is, and has remained, in a class of his own.

He was also a great improviser, and use to "jam" and give concerts at Zimmermann's coffee house in Liepzig. How I wish recordings were available then.

Not only that, but Bach has been the greatest of teachers down the centuries since. He left valuable instructions and teaching aids on composition, such as the Well Tempered Clavier and the Art of Fugue among others.

The study of Bach's compositions has taught numerous composers, especially Mozart who made intensive study of Bach's compositions. Medelssohn in particular made intensive study of Bach's music and performed it widely. All of the great composers since Bach owe him an enormous debt. There is no doubt that Bach has had more influence on the development of Western music than anybody else. He has had a huge influence on American music in particular, from the early Fuguing music of early New England, to Blue Grass and Jazz.

His achievements and and influence on the course of music is without parallel. But for Bach our musical scene today would be very different.

Towards the end of his life, "Old Bach" was summoned by Frederick the Great to Sansoucci. Frederick the Great was a flute player and a composer of significance. He also did not wash and stank to high Heaven. Anyhow he wrote a tune to trip up Bach. He came up with this tune because he thought it impossible to arrange in parts. It was truly almost impossible. Bach improvised on the tune, and Frederick wanted in two parts and then four, to which Bach obliged and composed on the spot. Then Frederick wanted in eight parts. Bach said the tune was very difficult to arrange in parts, but that he would go home and think about it.

Bach went home and in a short time had Frederick's tune arranged in eight parts. He sent the manuscript to Frederick the Great. This composition among the greatest of our civilization has become known as the "Musical Offering."

So even in ripe old age Bach continued to "write the book on composition".

Time spent with Bach is never wasted my friend. It is pure joy.
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
Time spent with Bach is never wasted my friend. It is pure joy.
Mark, I too am a lover of JS Bach, and your passion is laudable. In all of the movies and television shows and videos I have seen, the most moving musical performance I remember is Yo Yo Ma's recital of the Suite No 1 for Cello in an episode of The West Wing. After first hearing it, I acquired every one of Ma's performances of Bach I could find, and I still remember the episode vividly to this day. No other composer's music could have had similar impact, IMO.

On the other hand, if Beethoven wrote nothing else except the 32 piano sonatas we'd still be having a debate, just based on that one body of work. And, as you, know, Beethoven produced a lot of other work that's pure genius. You may dismiss the debate, but, frankly, I don't stand in awe of any of Bach's music the way I do those 32 works. As a massive body of work Bach may be the pinnacle, but the piano sonatas are, what a friend of mine used to call, my desert island music. (The music I would take with me to be marooned on a desert island, if I could have no other.) It wouldn't be Bach. Preference is always debatable.
 
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markw

Audioholic Overlord
Bach, Beethoven, and Brahms. The three "B"s of German music, and everyone has a favorite. That doesn't make any one superior to another. They just appeal to different tastes.

Me personally, I prefer Bach but will not disparage any other composer. Any one can bring beauty into peoples lives and that is laudable.

But, Bach WAS a tremendous organist in more ways than one.

He sired twenty children, ten of which lived to maturity. The most famous was C.P.E (Carl Phillip Emanuel) who went on to become a composer in his own right. Good, yes, but he didn't have his fathers gift. He did gain a bit of fame, though.

JS had other children who went on to greatness but never received the fame of CPE.

On son went into accounting. That was CPA Bach.

Another became a notorious tax collector. That would be IRS Bach.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
Mark and Irv, how about suggesting a CD or two to champion your choice!

I like both Beethoven and Bach, but am not nearly so familiar with their works as I should be.:(

However, to reach a resolution to this debate, I think we should defer to a young virtuoso pianist who manages to make even a toy piano sound like a professional jazz trio:





Clearly Schroeder is the man (although I personally prefer Chopin).
 
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herbu

Audioholic Samurai
He has had a huge influence on American music in particular, from the early Fuguing music of early New England, to Blue Grass and Jazz.
It is still a bit surprising how often I can hear influence of the masters in today's music. Early Ian Anderson, (Jethro Tull), is one of the most noticeable examples, even to the uninitiated.
 
crossedover

crossedover

Audioholic Chief
Mark and Irv, how about suggesting a CD or two to champion your choice!

I like both Beethoven and Bach, but am not nearly so familiar with their works as I should be.:(

However, to reach a resolution to this debate, I think we should defer to a young virtuoso pianist who manages to make even a toy piano sound like a professional jazz trio:





Clearly Schroeder is the man (although I personally prefer Chopin).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vince_Guaraldi

There was a a direct to press LP of some his Peanuts works
 
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