Audio Receivers w/ Small Footprints

[tenshi]

We are about to move into a new home. It has the most wonderful family room with a vaulted ceiling. We are hoping to keep the layout as minimal as possible. This means that we would like to have our 55" TV mounted to an adjustable mount on the wall. We would like to hide everything else. We can easily mount a Roku and Steam Link to the back of the TV where noone will see them. This is all that we will require in terms of source devices.

The Room already has hookups for the the front and back L/R speakers in the four corners of the room where the walls meet the ceiling. (I know that this is not the optimal audio setup, but it is preferred here). The speaker wires have been run in the walls and molding to accommodate this. The hookups originate on the wall near where the TV will be mounted.

Our TV itself can handle the Video and Audio pass-through, with multiple source inputs and HDMI/Optical outputs. All that we need now is a way to process the digital audio and power the speakers without the need for a cabinet or extra mount for a traditional, bulky audio/video receiver. My requirements are as follows:

• it must power a 5.1 speaker setup
• it must handle standard 5.1 channel digital signals
• I will need a way to configure the frequency output to accommodate for crossover between satellite speakers and subwoofer ranges.
• it should be as small as possible to hide behind the TV or in a wall depression where it will not be seen.
• it does NOT need to handle video

Does such a solution exist? I was even thinking that perhaps a car audio solution might be an option here.

Lastly, I did come across numerous universal wireless subwoofer hookups that would allow us to place our subwoofer in any convenient spot in the room. Does anyone know if these work well or have any noticeable lag?

I have included the only picture of the room that we currently have. The TV will be mounted on the wall to the left of the picture (the direction in which my fiance is facing). Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

 

[Seth=L]

No, a car audio solution would not work.

There are home solutions for this, but we need to know what kind of speakers you'll be using and your listening habits (how loud you listen).

 

[tenshi]

No, a car audio solution would not work.

There are home solutions for this, but we need to know what kind of speakers you'll be using and your listening habits (how loud you listen).

We will most likely be using 3 Cambridge Minx Min 21 speakers in the front and 2 Cambridge Minx Min 11 speakers in the rear. I have not yet decided which subwoofer I am going to get (I am open to suggestions).

As for my listening habits, it will be primarily Movies and TV. I use them for music less often in the family room but tend to listen to classical and jazz music. I have no desire to crank the system up so loudly that my neighbors can hear everything.

Here are links to the speakers I will be using:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008S4ITC6/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_2?pf_rd_p=1944687622&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B008S4IT0S&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1H1FSKWG0YP1BB32TFV7

http://www.amazon.com/Cambridge-Audio-Speaker-Gloss-White/dp/B008S4ISGS/ref=pd_bxgy_23_3?ie=UTF8&refRID=18ZYJV1B0C36JM0NBQN1

 

[Seth=L]

Get one of the Yahama NEO HD receivers. Should work perfectly.

They're getting harder to come by. I would recommend spending no more than $150-200 on one. You'll probably have to buy used. Unfortunately it appears that accessories4less just recently sold out, they had them for $199 refurbished.

 

[tenshi]

Thanks for the suggestion. I'm still a bit disappointed at how large this one is. Looks like there are a number of people looking to snatch those up. There's a buy it now used for $249.99.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Yamaha-neoHD-YMC-500-5-1-Channel-Receiver-Black-rare-hard-to-find-/272050060026?hash=item3f57727afa:g:1nEAAOSwkZhWTRI3

Another option that seems to have a similar footprint (taller, but much less depth) is the CRX-332BL
http://smile.amazon.com/Yamaha-CRX-332BL-Micro-Component-Receiver/dp/B005YXXS4I/ref=pd_sim_sbs_23_2?ie=UTF8&dpID=41PQFnBOg1L&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR160,160_&refRID=1PDHZKWJSGZP1TFE9K5R

The rest are significantly more. I'll keep looking. Any other options?

Why would a car solution not work? I know that some AC to DC converters might be necessary. What are the other limitations?

 

[markw]

Why would a car solution not work? I know that some AC to DC converters might be necessary. What are the other limitations?

Can you name any 5.1 car units? I can't.

 

[Seth=L]

Thanks for the suggestion.

No problem.

I'm still a bit disappointed at how large this one is.

I'm not sure how large you think it is. This receiver is quite small. It also can be mounted vertically.

Looks like there are a number of people looking to snatch those up. There's a buy it now used for $249.99.

It used to be you couldn't get anyone to buy one because they're a misunderstood product. People didn't understand why it didn't have a display or why someone would want a receiver that doesn't have 1 million watts (I'm exaggerating of course). The person that listed that as "hard to find" is talking nonsense. It's not hard to find, and they aren't in huge demand.

Another option that seems to have a similar footprint (taller, but much less depth) is the CRX-332BL

That is not a surround sound receiver. It powers only 2 speakers.

The rest are significantly more. I'll keep looking. Any other options?

Not if you want surround sound. The options are extremely limited.

Why would a car solution not work?

Because that's not what they were designed for.

I know that some AC to DC converters might be necessary.

Sure, you can hook up car audio in your house with some very expensive and large power converters, but at that rate you'd spend a lot less money and save a lot more space just buying a regular receiver.

What are the other limitations?

Of car audio used in homes? Almost always going to be inferior sounding. They're designed to be operated off DC. By converting AC to DC with anything but high quality converters will result in electronic interference that will produce buzzing and other noise through your speakers.

And in continuance of what Mark said, there really aren't any surround sound products for cars. Back in the early 2000s they tried that when DVD came to the market. Alpine and other manufacturers tried to implement surround sound into vehicles. It was a monumental failure and a mess. It's made its way into some minivans and SUVs since then as a novelty. It's not worth the time and effort to mess with such inferior equipment.

 

[tenshi]

Can you name any 5.1 car units? I can't.

They're out there. A quick google search yields something with an optical input like this:
http://www.alpine.com.au/showItem.php?item_id=64

 

[markw]

They're out there. A quick google search yields something with an optical input like this:
http://www.alpine.com.au/showItem.php?item_id=64

I assume you're in Australia? Well then, go for it, smart ass. Then, it's up to you to make it work in a home environment.

I love it when some newbie comes here asking for something that either doesn't exist and/or is simply not workable and then cops an attitude when he doesn't get a satisfactory answer to his stupid question, even after people have nicely explained to him why it won't work. Particularly when workable alternatives have been offered and rejected.

Did you ever hear The Rolling Stones song "You can't always get what you want"?

 

[tenshi]

I assume you're in Australia? Well then, go for it, smart ass. Then, it's up to you to make it work in a home environment.

I was simply answering your question. @Seth=L has been kind enough to answer my questions and give helpful information, and I am grateful. It seems that your only intention is to flame and make this forum a hostile environment. You have not contributed anything useful to this thread. If that's the case, I would kindly advise you that your input is not needed.

 

[tenshi]

Thanks again for your responses.

I'm not sure how large you think it is. This receiver is quite small. It also can be mounted vertically.

The specs that I am seeing are 12.4 x 11.8 x 3.6 inches. It's possible those are the dimensions of the packaging and not the actual unit itself. At that size, I might be able to create a recess in the wall behind the TV mount, but depending on how deep the drywall cavity is, It might still stick out. It's still an option, I'll just have to do some engineering. If the unit is hidden, I will also need to consider how to handle volume control. I assume this will not allow my TV to set its volume like some of the newer devices?

The person that listed that as "hard to find" is talking nonsense. It's not hard to find, and they aren't in huge demand.

At the moment, they're easy to find if you're willing to pay a high price for them. The current ebay sellers are just holding out for high bids. Looking at the ebay statistics, it looks like there are a handful of people waiting to snatch one up when the price drops. I have another month before we move into the new house. I will continue looking. I might try making some low-ball offers on a few ebay listings and see if any of the sellers bite.

And in continuance of what Mark said, there really aren't any surround sound products for cars. Back in the early 2000s they tried that when DVD came to the market.

I see what you mean. I found a few forum posts with links to a dozen or so different models. Most of those links were dead. There are still some available, but the dimensions are only about 15% smaller than the unit that you suggested and at least twice as expensive. Even if I could get them to work, I'm not sure that it would be a net win.

Are there any such options that might allow for a separate digital processor and amp?

 

[Seth=L]

They're out there. A quick google search yields something with an optical input like this:
http://www.alpine.com.au/showItem.php?item_id=64

I don't believe that has an optical input, and it certainly doesn't do multichannel decoding, only power.

Have you considered just having a full size receiver but in a different room?

The specs that I am seeing are 12.4 x 11.8 x 3.6 inches. It's possible those are the dimensions of the packaging and not the actual unit itself. At that size, I might be able to create a recess in the wall behind the TV mount, but depending on how deep the drywall cavity is, It might still stick out. It's still an option, I'll just have to do some engineering. If the unit is hidden, I will also need to consider how to handle volume control. I assume this will not allow my TV to set its volume like some of the newer devices?

Those are the dimensions of the unit. You mentioned you'd like to mount it as flat as possible. 3.6" is too thick still? You can control the unit with an IR blaster. It's a little device that you basically glue to the IR sensor of the receiver than run the other end to the line of sight of the remote. Fairly inexpensive and easy to do.

At the moment, they're easy to find if you're willing to pay a high price for them. The current ebay sellers are just holding out for high bids. Looking at the ebay statistics, it looks like there are a handful of people waiting to snatch one up when the price drops. I have another month before we move into the new house. I will continue looking. I might try making some low-ball offers on a few ebay listings and see if any of the sellers bite.

This is a recent thing. Not but a few months ago several retailers were selling them at major discounts. It's unfortunate. If you can hold out a while the prices should stabilize.

I see what you mean. I found a few forum posts with links to a dozen or so different models. Most of those links were dead. There are still some available, but the dimensions are only about 15% smaller than the unit that you suggested and at least twice as expensive. Even if I could get them to work, I'm not sure that it would be a net win.

And not only are they more expensive, but they're less effective, less up to date, and still require an AC - DC converter which at best will set you back a couple hundred bucks for a mediocre one and the converters are large, they often have loud fans, and you don't want them left running 24/7 (because of the noise alone).

Are there any such options that might allow for a separate digital processor and amp?

I don't know of any mini processors, other than the ones you see in PCs. Someone else might be able to chime in here. But if you're exploring the processor and seperate hidden amplifier route you may as well consider getting a full size AVR and putting in a closet or adjacent room out of sight and putting an IR extender or blaster on it.

 

[Seth=L]

Here's an article published by Audioholic's publication. It's from 2013, but I think it's still very relevant to your particular situation.

http://www.audioholics.com/editorials/hidden-home-theater-hiding-surround-sound

Just because it shows a huge rack in that closet does not mean you would need to have anything that sophisticated.

 

[KEW]

Just a reminder.
While hiding the gear,be sure they still have good ventilation!

 

[tenshi]

Have you considered just having a full size receiver but in a different room?

The wires have already been run throughout the walls and molding for its current configuration. I think I'd prefer to have everything running from the nearby linen closet as you suggested, but I think that is, at best, a not-so-near future project. In the meantime, if I can't do something fancy with what I've got, I'd probably just have to stick something big out in the open for a couple of years.

You can control the unit with an IR blaster.

IR blaster was my first thought as well. Last I saw, you could solder one together for about $8. If I want to continue using my universal remote with a roku3 that will also be hidden, that would be a solution for this as well.

I don't know of any mini processors, other than the ones you see in PCs.

This might be something to explore. You mentioned computer decoders. It may be a longshot, but perhaps I can look into external-type USB soundcards powered by a small micro computer like a raspberry PI or something similar. I'll report back if I find anything that looks promising. I do not yet know what type of hookups would need to run between the soundcard and the receiving amp. Can you think of an amp on the receiving end that might work?

 

[Seth=L]

The wires have already been run throughout the walls and molding for its current configuration. I think I'd prefer to have everything running from the nearby linen closet as you suggested, but I think that is, at best, a not-so-near future project. In the meantime, if I can't do something fancy with what I've got, I'd probably just have to stick something big out in the open for a couple of years.


IR blaster was my first thought as well. Last I saw, you could solder one together for about $8. If I want to continue using my universal remote with a roku3 that will also be hidden, that would be a solution for this as well.


This might be something to explore. You mentioned computer decoders. It may be a longshot, but perhaps I can look into external-type USB soundcards powered by a small micro computer like a raspberry PI or something similar. I'll report back if I find anything that looks promising. I do not yet know what type of hookups would need to run between the soundcard and the receiving amp. Can you think of an amp on the receiving end that might work?

Nothing comes to mind that's 5 channels, small, and runs off 110v.

You could get 3 of these.

http://www.amazon.com/SMSL-SA-36A-Tripath-Amplifier-Adapter/dp/B00A2QLC0O/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1449165814&sr=8-1&keywords=class-t

 

[markw]

I was simply answering your question. @Seth=L has been kind enough to answer my questions and give helpful information, and I am grateful. It seems that your only intention is to flame and make this forum a hostile environment. You have not contributed anything useful to this thread. If that's the case, I would kindly advise you that your input is not needed.

As Seth pointed out, this auto unit would not answer your needs.

And, no. I don't live to flame. It's just that you can't get it through your thick skull that what you want doesn't exist and can't easily be done. it won't be a simple off-the-shelf solution that any idiot can install. The people here TRYING to help you have been pretty clear about that. Every time they TRY tell you that you insult their intelligence by injecting your ignorant comments. You still think you know better.

Your apology is accepted.

 

[tenshi]

Thanks again Seth=L,

Nothing comes to mind that's 5 channels, small, and runs off 110v.

You could get 3 of these.

http://www.amazon.com/SMSL-SA-36A-Tripath-Amplifier-Adapter/dp/B00A2QLC0O/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1449165814&sr=8-1&keywords=class-t

Hmm, how would this work? I'd get a box for front L/R, a box for back L/R, a box for the center channel with a spare hookup, and run a line directly to the sub from the soundcard (or via universal wireless adapter)?

The power rating is where I am ignorant. The description says 2x20 watts. The Neo HD that you showed me says that it's 50 watts. Is that 50x5, or 50 split between all 5 channels? What would be the output difference between the Neo HD and 3 of these little boxes?

The Raspberry Pi idea could actually work. After some cursory investigation, I did find several cheap 5.1 channel USB soundcards. The project would require

1. a soundcard that is compatible with the Raspberry Pi operating system
2. a way to connect the soundcard to an appropriate amplifier that drives the speakers
3. a means of controlling the volume (this might require some custom coding)
4. providing the necessary power to all required devices
5. if the USB soundcard offloads the decoding to the main CPU, the Raspberry Pi would need to be sufficiently fast enough to handle that.

I'm fairly confident I could pull all of this off at a similar price range. The biggest advantage would be that I could do some really fancy scripting that allows for automation, extra integration, and even a bluetooth A2DP hookup for music. Ultimately, the bigger questions are:

1. Would this allow for a smaller footprint? I need to find the exact dimension of those things.
2. How would the sound quality compare?
3. How much work would be required to achieve the basic functionality?

I'm going to pursue this a little further.

 

[Seth=L]

Thanks again Seth=L,



Hmm, how would this work? I'd get a box for front L/R, a box for back L/R, a box for the center channel with a spare hookup, and run a line directly to the sub from the soundcard (or via universal wireless adapter)?

The power rating is where I am ignorant. The description says 2x20 watts. The Neo HD that you showed me says that it's 50 watts. Is that 50x5, or 50 split between all 5 channels? What would be the output difference between the Neo HD and 3 of these little boxes?

The Raspberry Pi idea could actually work. After some cursory investigation, I did find several cheap 5.1 channel USB soundcards. The project would require

1. a soundcard that is compatible with the Raspberry Pi operating system
2. a way to connect the soundcard to an appropriate amplifier that drives the speakers
3. a means of controlling the volume (this might require some custom coding)
4. providing the necessary power to all required devices
5. if the USB soundcard offloads the decoding to the main CPU, the Raspberry Pi would need to be sufficiently fast enough to handle that.

I'm fairly confident I could pull all of this off at a similar price range. The biggest advantage would be that I could do some really fancy scripting that allows for automation, extra integration, and even a bluetooth A2DP hookup for music. Ultimately, the bigger questions are:

1. Would this allow for a smaller footprint? I need to find the exact dimension of those things.
2. How would the sound quality compare?
3. How much work would be required to achieve the basic functionality?

I'm going to pursue this a little further.

It's overly complex and unnecessary, it won't sound as good as an actual receiver. Unfortunately power for speakers usually costs you size. And it's not realistic to find one unit that does it all and provides enough power for the whole thing. There's also ease of use. If it's a cantankerous nightmare for you and others to use its not really worth pursuing. I'm just providing options (albeit less than ideal). Ideal would be to wait until you can do the receiver in the closet in an adjacent room. If you could bare to have a regular size receiver in the room for the time period between projects that would be ideal and would cost the least amount of money and cause the least amount of stress.

The best option that fits (or comes close to fitting) your criteria is still the Yamaha NEO HD receiver.

 

[tenshi]

This forum thread is almost 3 years old. It seems that there are HDMI-CEC libraries that can work on raspbian. They should be more mature by now. This leaves the potential to be able to control the master volume via the TV.

https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=15749

Likewise, here is a current Raspberry Pi + HDMI-CEC guide:
http://www.instructables.com/id/Raspberry-Pi-Remote-For-Free/