Av recievers versus Pre Power combos

[trefor ball]

Seems everyone keeps telling us that £1500 Av receivers are as good as Pre Power combinations.
One would assume that detail and dynamics would be superior with the separates kit ?
Has anyone done a direct comparison?


Sorry about title spelling

 

[TheWarrior]

Hi!

There's no appreciable difference once you get in to the mid/high end offerings from any manufacturer. The only reason to use a separate amp is to drive low impedance speakers, or when you are using a receiver to drive surround sound and have full range towers up front that would benefit from their own power supply.

 

[Locoweed]

One would assume that detail and dynamics would be superior with the separates kit ?

What would lead you to assume that?

 

[Seth=L]

What would lead you to assume that?

My guess would be marketing.

Seems everyone keeps telling us that £1500 Av receivers are as good as Pre Power combinations.

That depends on the application and component selection.

One would assume that detail and dynamics would be superior with the separates kit ?

That is theoretically possible. That assumes the preamplifier has options a receiver wouldn't and that your power requirements exceed that of a top flight receiver.

Has anyone done a direct comparison?

I've noted that quality separate amplifiers often have greater dynamic headroom than those found in receivers. Sometimes preamplifiers have better isolation and yield a better signal to noise ratio compared to receivers, but this is usually negligible.

 

[trefor ball]

Interestingly enough I use the high quality dac in my Oppo 105 bluray player and straight into power amp with analogue connection so hopefully getting the purist signal.
Although this approach seems to get little mention.

 

[trefor ball]

Interestingly enough I use the high quality dac in my Oppo 105 bluray player and straight into power amp with analogue connection so hopefully getting the purist signal.
Although this approach seems to get little mention.

 

[Seth=L]

Funny that you mention that, I had just started a thread about a week ago asking about CD players with volume control and the Oppo was mentioned as one such model that did. I'm sure it's dead silent on the SNR and if feeding a good amplifier there should be virtually no audible noise from the speakers when no program is being played. Since the Oppo has digital inputs as well as an HDMI input you can essentially use it as a Preamplifier in the right setup. Very cool.

 

[trefor ball]

Well Thanks,
Yeah the volume control is brilliant and enabled me to lose a box of bits from the signal path

 

[Seth=L]

Well Thanks,
Yeah the volume control is brilliant and enabled me to lose a box of bits from the signal path

I wish it had just one analog audio input and cost half as much, then I might be tempted.

 

[trefor ball]

Yeah I know,
Interest free credit saved me!

 

[KenM10759]

I'm thinking of working my way into separate components if for no other reason than that the technology of video resolution and digital sound formats is constantly evolving and I would only have to upgrade the pre-amp. A good high quality power amp would serve to power my speakers as they only have to send a good powerful "analog" signal to them.

 

[PENG]

Funny that you mention that, I had just started a thread about a week ago asking about CD players with volume control and the Oppo was mentioned as one such model that did. I'm sure it's dead silent on the SNR and if feeding a good amplifier there should be virtually no audible noise from the speakers when no program is being played. Since the Oppo has digital inputs as well as an HDMI input you can essentially use it as a Preamplifier in the right setup. Very cool.

Be careful guys, I remember reading about volume controls on media players and power amps because I have a an old flagship CD player that has the feature and got discouraged. The Oppo 105 can do it too but I won't bother trying, knowing that there will be no theoretical advantage. The feature can be convenient but there are "cons", i.e. negative effects on SQ, but I can't remember the details other than I understood the cons at the time. I think one has to do the output impedance, depending on the design but you can imagine even the ones that use some sort of passive attenuators, the impedance will bound to vary with the output.

It also depends on one's applications, length of interconnects etc., I can tell you after reading about those "understandable" negatives I found using the CD player without the preamp in the loop definitely sound less dynamic and depth yet I was enjoying it prior. I don't mean to double talk, but I'd say go ahead and try it. Placebo has the biggest influence in the end but you never know how you are going to be affected by it, or not, relative to others.

 

[fmw]

While the media player as preamp can work you lose room calibration, bass management, multiple inputs, the ability to drive amplifiers to full power etc. etc. etc. In other words it is a compromise that will work but probably is not the best solution.

 

[trefor ball]

Well in the case of the oppo105 and my sherbourne 7 channel power amp connected in analogue configuration and used in a dedicated av system the only thing I miss is the room correction and not sure that is worth the extra £1000 + that it would cost for the pre.
Although I have a separate dedicated stereo system and yes in that case I do agree the standalone pre does deliver better dynamics.
But using my oppo to replace my previous audiolab pre amp just cleaned up the sound .
Indeed I have heard the oppo driving Bryston power amps in comparison to bryston pre with big PMC speakers and the difference was debatable.

 

[TLS Guy]

Hi!

There's no appreciable difference once you get in to the mid/high end offerings from any manufacturer. The only reason to use a separate amp is to drive low impedance speakers, or when you are using a receiver to drive surround sound and have full range towers up front that would benefit from their own power supply.

As usual it all depends. If you get a pre pro and drive it into amps with A/B output stage of equivalent power you likely will not notice a difference.

However all amps do not sound the same. So if you use power amps with a superior output topology and with significantly more power, then yes, what you suppose will likely be correct.

The other issue is that the pre/pro approach allows you to use active electronic crossovers. Properly implemented in the lower octaves, this approach results in a quantum increase in performance.

So as usual it all depends on implementation and the overarching design of the system which route is best for you.

I could not get a system close to the quality I have now if I used a receiver, not even remotely close.

Receivers just don't come with this much heft.