Does more money buy you better performance with home audio gear?

Which home audio product does price have the biggest influence of quality?

  • Amplifiers

    Votes: 2 4.9%
  • Cables and Interconnects

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Preamp/Processors and Receivers

    Votes: 4 9.8%
  • Loudspeakers and Subwoofers

    Votes: 33 80.5%
  • Source (ie. Blu-ray, CD Player, Turntable, etc

    Votes: 2 4.9%

  • Total voters
    41
A

AlainB

Audiophyte
Since I'm new to this forum let me tell you a bit about myself. Audio/video technician and retail B&M store salesman. My main system is:
A/V receiver: ANTHEM MRX710
Speakers: B & W CM8 FRONT
CM CENTER
M1 SURROUNDS
PARADIGM SIESMIC 110 SUB + DSP 3100 SUB
Source MARANTZ UD5007 BLURAY PLAYER/ STREAMER
WD NAS DRIVE
DUAL 505 II turntable with ORTOFON 2M BLUE cartridge
PIONNER RT1011L reel to reel tape deck
NIKKO BETA 20 analog preamp
Cables ULTRALINK digital- analog- speaker cables

All this gear AND room treatment makes me smile when i listen it.
 
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lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
Since I'm new to this forum let me tell you a bit about myself. Audio/video technician and retail B&M store salesman. My main system is:
A/V receiver: ANTHEM MRX710
Speakers: B & W CM8 FRONT
CM CENTER
M1 SURROUNDS
PARADIGM SIESMIC 110 SUB + DSP 3100 SUB
Source MARANTZ UD5007 BLURAY PLAYER/ STREAMER
WD NAS DRIVE
DUAL 505 II turntable with ORTOFON 2M BLUE cartridge
PIONNER RT1011L reel to reel tape deck
We have a system gallery you might consider adding pictures too. Welcome
 
B

BoomDog28

Enthusiast
Is the extra features worth the price difference between the new Marantz 5010 and 6010. I keep going back and forth on these AVRs. $400 is aa big gap for extras I might not use.

Please share opinion.
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
Is the extra features worth the price difference between the new Marantz 5010 and 6010. I keep going back and forth on these AVRs. $400 is aa big gap for extras I might not use.

Please share opinion.
Get the cheapest receiver you can with pre-outs from a reputable brand is my rule. Save the 400 dollars for speaker upgrades down the line. FWIW I suggest checking accessories4less.com. I've saved a lot of money getting refurbs there that I used on other things.
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
I voted source for turntables only knowing full well that loudspeakers & sub would be the right choice for HT only.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
I will add my few cents worth.

Speakers are I think the best area were devoting more funds will generally improve results. However you have to be careful. I have heard more than a few very costly speakers that were really dreadful. So the cost benefit ratio has a huge scatter.

In bad rooms, treatments can help. In my view most rooms do not need it, and it is an area were expenditures in this area can make things worse. In addition a lot of spaces do not lend themselves to acoustic treatment. Speakers have an impact here. Most room problems are in the lower octaves. As I have frequently pointed out, low Q speaker designs will minimize these problems and high Q ones exacerbate them.

When it comes to turntables and analog tape recorders, then increased price with close tolerance precision engineering pays huge dividends including sonic performance and long life. However I think you have to beware of modern turntables with high prices catering to the audiophools. Many of these turntables spend huge amounts of money trying to solve minor and even non problems to exclusion of an overall satisfying design. In my view the modern trend in very high priced turntables to high mass arms and lower compliance cartridges is plain wrong. Good high priced vintage turntables if chosen carefully are more often than not very rewarding.

Electronics is a difficult area. I don't believe there is a strict price performance trend. I do not believe all amps sound the same. You have to choose wisely. It helps to become familiar with amplifier topology. I think the design has the biggest impact, on quality and reliability.

The most difficult projection to make is reliability and this is all over the map. Some modest designs can have long legs, and more than a few fussy, costly and exotic designs have really been in need of a chimney!

Most digital devices like CD players for instance have become utilitarian. When assessing purely digital performance I'm not persuaded you can tell a cheap off the shelf player from an exotic.

Often not mentioned is steaming digital material. Here I think at least time and trouble pay huge dividends.

I have had a big focus on this technology for a little over three years now. It is clear from the BBC that encoders are not created equal, and customization is required. This also applies to the receiver end. I'm certain that off the shelf devices provide far from the best quality available. In this area significant DIY is currently required and not insignificant expense. It is how ever a very rewarding area to become interested in.
 
P

Philip Grundner

Audiophyte
The only difference between the 5010 vs the 6010 is a little bit more power, 2-zone audio and video output(5010 only has 2-zone audio output) and the 6010 has a phono input. Is that worth $400... The 5010 has pre-amp outputs.
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
In bad rooms, treatments can help. In my view most rooms do not need it, and it is an area were expenditures in this area can make things worse. In addition a lot of spaces do not lend themselves to acoustic treatment. Speakers have an impact here. Most room problems are in the lower octaves. As I have frequently pointed out, low Q speaker designs will minimize these problems and high Q ones exacerbate them.
Agreed 200% but be careful espousing so much common sense or the Acoustics Charlatans may have a witch hunt with you like some did with me when I said proper placement of multi-subs and EQ can virtually eliminate the need for any Low F room treatments :)
 
T

Tao1

Audioholic
I come from a PC gaming background and I have been trying to get my brethren to see the light as I have.

Sound is considered an after thought in PC gaming, and $200 seems to be the mean budget for speakers, and $500 is high end/unheard of.

After using my dads home theatre system for gaming when I was house sitting for him a while back, I saw the light. The sound experience on that home theatre system added almost as much to the gaming experiences as video did. Gaming (be it first person shooters, or RPGs) leverages a good surround setup MORE SO than a Blu Ray player can. There is nothing like running through a crowded market place in a good RPG (Witcher 3) and feeling like you are there from the sound of all the people there.

I have been tying to share this message, and to not shortchange the gaming experience by writing off the audio experience as an after thought. Gamers are willing to spend $300 or so every few years on a graphics card (approx $1000 over 10 years) when they go obsolete, but not even $500 for speakers that don't go obsolete and will last 10-20 years!

To compound the problem further, game developers are rarely including high res audio files, simply because most gamers can't hear the difference because they have bad equipment. High res audio would only ad a gigabyte or so to a game which would already be 20-30 gigabytes as it is. Not much of a difference.

Anyway this message of 'what you get for the money' really needs to be spread to gamers. There is simply a relatively untapped market out there.
 
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P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Agreed 200% but be careful espousing so much common sense or the Acoustics Charlatans may have a witch hunt with you like some did with me when I said proper placement of multi-subs and EQ can virtually eliminate the need for any Low F room treatments :)
Agree also but some speakers (remember the B&W 802D, the original diamond?) can sound really good in the right room listening in the right position due apparently mainly to their poor off axis performance. So for owners of such speakers, room rules.:D
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
The only difference between the 5010 vs the 6010 is a little bit more power, 2-zone audio and video output(5010 only has 2-zone audio output) and the 6010 has a phono input. Is that worth $400... The 5010 has pre-amp outputs.
Actually, the amp power difference is negligible but in terms of future proofing the 6010 is closer to the 7010. It has Audyssey XT32 Sub EQ HT, 9.2 channel processing, 13.2 preouts $500 more (list price) is a lot but if you need those two features and want to stick with Marantz then it is worth it.
 
A

AlainB

Audiophyte
Is the extra features worth the price difference between the new Marantz 5010 and 6010. I keep going back and forth on these AVRs. $400 is aa big gap for extras I might not use.

Please share opinion.
Been selling Marantz product for a few years now. If you don't intend to do Atmos or DTSX the 5010 would be the best choice. Audyssey is better on the 6010 but you can always fine tune the 5010 to your liking.
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
Agreed 200% but be careful espousing so much common sense or the Acoustics Charlatans may have a witch hunt with you like some did with me when I said proper placement of multi-subs and EQ can virtually eliminate the need for any Low F room treatments :)
I have no treatments in my room either. At least we won't be alone when they come to get us.
 
C

class a

Junior Audioholic
As someone who spins a lot of records, I would have to vote for the source. I've owned my Aerial 6's for quite a number of years and as I've upgraded my Linn TT (Cirkus, Ittok tonearm, cart and phono stage) I found an improvement in the sound. I was able to get more out of my speakers w/each upgrade.
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
I come from a PC gaming background and I have been trying to get my brethren to see the light as I have.

Sound is considered an after thought in PC gaming, and $200 seems to be the mean budget for speakers, and $500 is high end/unheard of.

After using my dads home theatre system for gaming when I was house sitting for him a while back, I saw the light. The sound experience on that home theatre system added almost as much to the gaming experiences as video did. Gaming (be it first person shooters, or RPGs) leverages a good surround setup MORE SO than a Blu Ray player can. There is nothing like running through a crowded market place in a good RPG (Witcher 3) and feeling like you are there from the sound of all the people there.

I have been tying to share this message, and to not shortchange the gaming experience by writing off the audio experience as an after thought. Gamers are willing to spend $300 or so every few years on a graphics card (approx $1000 over 10 years) when they go obsolete, but not even $500 for speakers that don't go obsolete and will last 10-20 years!

To compound the problem further, game developers are rarely including high res audio files, simply because most gamers can't hear the difference because they have bad equipment. High res audio would only ad a gigabyte or so to a game which would already be 20-30 gigabytes as it is. Not much of a difference.

Anyway this message of 'what you get for the money' really needs to be spread to gamers. There is simply a relatively untapped market out there.
Lots of gamers just use headphones, which is probably the best thing to do for trying to detect sounds around you. As for hi-resolution files, there is definitely a point of diminishing returns. There isn't much of a point of storing sound in files with higher resolution than redbook CDs. I agree though, that most desktop PC speaker sound systems are garbage. I also agree that games use surround sound to much better effect than movies ever have.
 
B

bogrod

Junior Audioholic
Interesting how this video is presented. A year or longer I criticized audioholics for potentially advocating snake oil. At the time I was roundly trounced for not being open minded enough, or allowing the staff to be open minded enough for the viewers of this forum (take your pick). Now a year or more later I'm seeing muscle bound and thinning hair dude giggle about cables and snake oil. Wow. Good job. You two have brought Audiohics back to its original mission statement. Good to see. Maybe I'll see if this mission statement will stick around for a while
 
T

Tao1

Audioholic
Interesting how this video is presented. A year or longer I criticized audioholics for potentially advocating snake oil. At the time I was roundly trounced for not being open minded enough, or allowing the staff to be open minded enough for the viewers of this forum (take your pick). Now a year or more later I'm seeing muscle bound and thinning hair dude giggle about cables and snake oil. Wow. Good job. You two have brought Audiohics back to its original mission statement. Good to see. Maybe I'll see if this mission statement will stick around for a while

I am fairly new here, but as far as the videos go, I could tell that Gene and Hugo were engineers right off the bat. I got more detail about the basics of audio from their videos, and no BS in what they were trying to say.

Maybe some bad apples were regular posters here?
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
That an old stereotype. Denon makes Marantz receivers and dollar for dollar the Denon cuter part is the higher end platform for each model. Ie a marantz SR7010 is about equivalent to a Denon 5200, not the 7200 flagship.
You should contact the people who write the training material for Denon/Marantz- they tell us that Denon is more feature-packed and Marantz is designed to sound better, with better shielding, devices that are better for sound reproduction, better circuitry, etc. PM me if you don't know the name of the trainer.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Sometimes and sometimes not. The correct answer in your list is speakers and subs. The rest is trivial by comparison.
Trivial? Go ahead- connect the best amplifiers and speakers in a room with concrete walls, using some of the best source equipment and material- you won't like what you hear. Do the same in a room that's acoustically perfect and use a cheap POS turntable with a cheap POS cartridge or another POS device with low bit-rate MP3 files and you won't like that, either. Then, connect an AVR, integrated amp or separates that are known to be able to reproduce well, to reasonably-priced speakers that sell because of their sound quality and a better than average turntable with a great cartridge/pristine LP or a better than average BD player with a known high quality disc- I guarantee you'll like the last group more than great speakers in a bad room with a great front end.
 
H

herbu

Audioholic Samurai
Denon is more feature-packed and Marantz is designed to sound better, with better shielding, devices that are better for sound reproduction, better circuitry, etc.
I've heard that several times too. Even asked about it once here. If D&M tells their reps to say it, I suppose it is true. But I have yet to see any trusted member here say they could actually hear the difference, and the recommendations still seem to say Denon is the better value.

It makes me wonder if the difference in sound is subtle on paper, and indistinguishable by ear.
 
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