Low Budget, not Low Class!

O

Old Fart Tom

Audiophyte
Hello Folks:

( I truly apologize. I didn't see the "Check Here First" forum until after I wrote all this out! )

I’m a virtual newbie to anything AV related. I was an audiophile in the 1970’s and had a kick-ass stereo that lasted over 30 years. These days I’m like a mechanic who worked on cars in the 60’s. The only experience I have with Home Theater is a JVC setup from the 1990’s I bought at a garage sale for $25. I’ve been researching for weeks until my eyes can’t take it, and frankly, I’m played out. I just want to pull the trigger on “something” and be done with this.

NOTE: You should know that I am totally blind in one eye, and legally blind in the other. To give you an idea, I see ZERO difference between low-def & high-def. Sure I want the best for my budget, (HDMI) but video quality is low on the priority list.

The Room: Its a single-wide mobile home, so I can’t avoid the open living room-kitchen design. However, I’ll be placing the rear speakers between the two rooms. So the listening area is essentially 12’ wide, 18’ front to back, with a 7’ high ceiling.

Priority 1 – Budget: In 1978 I spent $2,500 on my sound system. That was a lot of doe 37 years ago. Now I live month to month on Social Security. I can’t even think mid or upper tier equipment. My needs are basic, so I’m looking at either quality stuff from 5-8 years ago, or low-end newer gear? I still have the garage sale JVC 100 watt powered sub and the low-end rear and center channel speakers. (125 watts @ 8 ohms) So my first priority is Front L-R and Receiver. I’ll upgrade the rest later. My “absolute max” budget is $275, but unless the extra $75 really makes the difference, $200 for both receiver & speakers is my goal.

Priority 2 – “Music” Sound Quality: TV surround sound is great, but Its total gravy for me compared to music quality. There’s only about 4-5 shows I would really use surround for, and I rarely watch movies. Conversely, I often listen to music 3-4 hours at a time, so music takes total priority over video quality!

Conflicting Research: I’ve read countless articles and youtube videos. Some say you should put the majority of your budget into the receiver, while others say it should be the speakers. I never even knew there was a difference between front L-R speakers and the rear “surround” speakers until all this research. Many companies sell the same 4 speakers for both? That’s confusing!

More Confusion: Looking at speakers on Amazon, it seems the terms “Bookshelf”, “Satellite”, and “Surround” are almost used interchangeably? ( or at least the differences are very unclear to me ) Anyway… on to some questions.

Question 1: Most Important - As a music lover with a $200-$300 max budget, do I focus more money on the Front L-R Speakers, or the Receiver? Considering smaller room size, I’m guessing WPC is not a major concern? Maybe 65-85 wpc?

To be clear, I like my 70’s rock ‘n roll on the loud side, but I’ve forgotten more than I knew about WPC, S/N ratio, sensitivity, head room, etc… Audio is almost a new world to me now!

Question 2: The Set Up - Here’s where my HT novice shows up. I have a 58 inch Samsung Plasma (PN58C550) It has 4 hdmi-ins, but I see no hdmi-out. I have only 2 peripherals. One is a DVD player that I rarely use accept for instructional video, so composite hook-up is fine. However, I also have a Chromecast that I use daily to stream Netflix & Screen Cast to my TV. Its connected to my TV HDMI-in, I’m guessing that stays where it is?

Question 3: I read that using hdmi to connect “either” your cable box OR your TV to the HT Receiver will only deliver 2-channel stereo, and you must use a digital “optical” cable to get the 5.1 signal to the receiver ) IS THIS TRUE?

Question 4: Is digital “Optical” audio cleaner and better than digital “Coax” audio?

Question 5: The final set-up now seems pretty simple. Correct me if I’m wrong?
Cable Box HDMI-OUT to TV HDMI-IN
Cable Box Optical Audio-OUT to Receiver Optical Audio In
TV Optical Audio OUT to Receiver Optical Audio In
( That’s assuming the receiver has TWO optical audio-IN jacks, otherwise I’d have to use digital COAX audio OUT, Right? )

In Closing, I know many of you audiophiles are having a chuckle at how much time, effort, and research I’ve put into such a basic low-end set up. Remember, I was you once. My finances have changed greatly, but my ears haven’t. I’m still the same picky son of a ***** I was 40 years ago when it comes to music listening. Forgive me for trying to learn and still get the best deal for my money. If anyone can help answer some of my questions, it would be GREATLY appreciated. I’ve been seconds short of pulling the trigger on a couple items, but thought I’d consult some experts first! My decisions change everytime I read more, but here's what my latest choices are.

Receiver – Yamaha RX-V377 ( $200 ) This means very low-end ebay used speakers.

Speakers - Bose 161 Speaker ( $158 ) This means a low-end ebay used receiver.

Maybe my best bet… Monoprice ( item 110800) Premium HT Speakers (Pair) $92
This leaves room for a decent receiver. Suggestions?

THANKS in advance for helping out an old fart living month to month. That’s how important music is to me. It keeps me going!
 
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BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
Tom, for $200 budget for pair speakers and a receiver you must start looking at 2nd hand stuff...
I recently found a 5.1 Athena speakers setup + Yamaha receiver set in MI for a mere $275. Dumb luck? Maybe, or the fact I was knowledgeable to spot a diamond in the rough then many skimmped over that ad without realizing the potential
In any case - you should read over this fresh thread:
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/home-audio-what-is-the-minimally-best-i-can-get-for-the-least-amount-of-money.96594/page-5#post-1101901
 
O

Old Fart Tom

Audiophyte
Thanks BoredSysAdmin!

Used is definitely on my radar. I'd rather have a quality 6 year old receiver than a crappy new one. After reading this again, I guess I went a little overboard with my post considering my needs. Sorry about that. Thanks for the article link!!!
 
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Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
So the receiver you currently has is a JVC, does it still work?

Question 1: Most Important - As a music lover with a $200-$300 max budget, do I focus more money on the Front L-R Speakers, or the Receiver? Considering smaller room size, I’m guessing WPC is not a major concern? Maybe 65-85 wpc?

To be clear, I like my 70’s rock ‘n roll on the loud side, but I’ve forgotten more than I knew about WPC, S/N ratio, sensitivity, head room, etc… Audio is almost a new world to me now!
Assuming the receiver you've been using is still around and kicking it may still serve a purpose. Since you expressed surround sound is not very important to you, might you consider ditching it all together?

Question 2:
The Set Up - Here’s where my HT novice shows up. I have a 58 inch Samsung Plasma (PN58C550) It has 4 hdmi-ins, but I see no hdmi-out. I have only 2 peripherals. One is a DVD player that I rarely use accept for instructional video, so composite hook-up is fine. However, I also have a Chromecast that I use daily to stream Netflix & Screen Cast to my TV. Its connected to my TV HDMI-in, I’m guessing that stays where it is?
Televisions don't technically have HDMI out. Modern televisions do have a feature called ARC (audio return channel) which basically means that one of the HDMI ports on the television will receive audio/video/network information and subsequently will "return" your audio signal back to a capable receiver.

Question 3
: I read that using hdmi to connect “either” your cable box OR your TV to the HT Receiver will only deliver 2-channel stereo, and you must use a digital “optical” cable to get the 5.1 signal to the receiver ) IS THIS TRUE?


I'm not sure on this one as I've never used such an arrangement. Hopefully someone else can answer this question.


Question 4:
Is digital “Optical” audio cleaner and better than digital “Coax” audio?
No, you will not be able to hear any difference between the two. Both exceed connection types the bandwidth required for any usable signals for the SPDIF format.

Question 5
: The final set-up now seems pretty simple. Correct me if I’m wrong?
Cable Box HDMI-OUT to TV HDMI-IN
Cable Box Optical Audio-OUT to Receiver Optical Audio In
TV Optical Audio OUT to Receiver Optical Audio In
( That’s assuming the receiver has TWO optical audio-IN jacks, otherwise I’d have to use digital COAX audio OUT, Right? )
There's many ways you can set this up, and that is one way you could do it.

To clarify, you have a chromecast, dvd player, and a cable box?
 
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ImcLoud

ImcLoud

Audioholic Ninja
IMO, music quality is much more important than surround sound quality, I would rather have a simple 2.0 vs any 5, 6, 7, 9, 11, .X or atmos, etc.. if on a budget.

I will tell you one thing, good sound quality IS NOT as expensive as people think...
A simple tri path amplififer lepai 2024 or 2020 what ever for under $30 and a set of use AJ pioneers or a new set for that matter for $99...

BUT, if you want a bit of a step above..
http://www.amazon.com/SMSL-50Wx2-TDA7492-Amplifier-Adapter/dp/B00F0H8TOC/ref=sr_1_sc_16?ie=UTF8&qid=1446487599&sr=8-16-spell&keywords=tri+path+amplifier

that little amp with a pair of hvl1's for $199 http://www.amazon.com/SMSL-50Wx2-TDA7492-Amplifier-Adapter/dp/B00F0H8TOC/ref=sr_1_sc_16?ie=UTF8&qid=1446487599&sr=8-16-spell&keywords=tri+path+amplifier I will put that $270 system to stay there with anthing out there for under $1000.

Home audio is an odd creature, you can get something nice for a few hundred bucks, and then you can spend around $3000 and get something real nice marginally better, but then after about $5K, you dont get much more, diminishing returns hits audiophiles very hard.. SO there is a type of nobility to doing something in the audio world for much less. That little class d and a pair of hvl1's will get you a nice music system, that while it wont fill a HUGE room, it will get most audiophiles even the stuck up, high end brick and mortar guys to stop and do the squinting listen for a song or two...
 
O

Old Fart Tom

Audiophyte
Seth=L:

Thank you so much fro your valuable time. I also pay it forward on other forums. To address a couple things you said...

No, my JVC receiver died, along with a speaker. While I don't "need" surround sound, I hate to waste my powered sub, center channel, and 2 cheap rear speakers. I'm just a receiver and front L-R away from totally filling a pretty small room!

Your paragraph on HDMI-ARC went over my head totally. I'll have to read more. That said, my TV is from 2010, and I'm fairly sure there is no hdmi-Arc port.

As for Optical or Coax Audio, I've never used either, but its good to know there's no real difference.

Finally, you are correct about my gear. All I have is a cheap DVD player that's fine for me. A Digital Cable box from my local cable company, and a physical Chrome Cast that plugs into a TV hdmi port. That's it... pretty basic. Maybe some others can throw out their opinions, and I REALLY appreciate yours! Thanks Pal,

Old Fart Tom
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
If it were me, I would not worry about the wasted center, jvc powered woofer, and cheap surrounds. I would focus entirely on a quality 2 channel setup. Trying to get a decent receiver with HDMI for cheap is going to be an uphill battle and I absolutely believe your money is better spent on speakers than on a receiver. It's too bad the receiver is fubar, it could remained useful. What's your locale? I could peruse your local craigslist and see if anything worthwhile turns up. The thread that was linked above was a craigslist success story. Guy got a whole 5.1 sound system with a decent receiver for $275 that would have absolutely killer for anyone. The pair of front tower speakers alone were worth almost what he paid, and he got 2 pairs of towers!
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord

The HVL-1's are indeed nice speakers, but they are best used with a sub. If you end up buying new gear, I would recommend the New Accurate Acoustic Monitors:
http://philharmonicaudio.com/aa.html
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/new-2015-affordable-accuracy-speakers-by-dennis-murphy.95661/#post-1092558

The AA's totally blow away the HVL-1's for bass. Personally, I also prefer the sound of the AA's midrange and treble, but I can understand why someone else might prefer the sound of the HVL-1. However, if you do not plan to mate them with a sub, there is absolutely no contest - the bass of the AA's is outstanding for a bookshelf speaker (and many towers), and that will far outweigh the lesser differences in the higher frequencies.
 
H

herbu

Audioholic Samurai
Question 3: I read that using hdmi to connect “either” your cable box OR your TV to the HT Receiver will only deliver 2-channel stereo, and you must use a digital “optical” cable to get the 5.1 signal to the receiver ) IS THIS TRUE?
I'm not sure how this would be a problem. HDMI cables can be cheap. You can run one from your cable box to your AVR, and another from your AVR to your TV. (As Seth=L pointed out, check the HDMI connections on your TV carefully. Look for one that says "ARC". That's your baby if you have it.

But even if you don't have that, I don't really see a problem for you. The ARC connection lets your TV talk back to your AVR. Do you have apps on your TV that you use, like Pandora, Internet browser, HULU, or anything like that? If you only use your TV as a TV, or taking input from somewhere else, (like cable box or xbox), you don't need your TV to talk back to your AVR.
 
ImcLoud

ImcLoud

Audioholic Ninja
The HVL-1's are indeed nice speakers, but they are best used with a sub. If you end up buying new gear, I would recommend the New Accurate Acoustic Monitors:
http://philharmonicaudio.com/aa.html
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/new-2015-affordable-accuracy-speakers-by-dennis-murphy.95661/#post-1092558

The AA's totally blow away the HVL-1's for bass. Personally, I also prefer the sound of the AA's midrange and treble, but I can understand why someone else might prefer the sound of the HVL-1. However, if you do not plan to mate them with a sub, there is absolutely no contest - the bass of the AA's is outstanding for a bookshelf speaker (and many towers), and that will far outweigh the lesser differences in the higher frequencies.
I havent heard them yet, i am sure the low end is substantial compared to the hvl1's, something about a reworked pioneer bookshelf, turns me off. I wasn't super impressed with them in their "stock" form, they are ok, but the hvl1's are nice for a little music system, again, not going to fill a huge room, but for the money you can certainly enjoy music with a tiny amp pushing them...

I agree, the aa's may also be a great contender...
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
I havent heard them yet, i am sure the low end is substantial compared to the hvl1's, something about a reworked pioneer bookshelf, turns me off. I wasn't super impressed with them in their "stock" form, they are ok, but the hvl1's are nice for a little music system, again, not going to fill a huge room, but for the money you can certainly enjoy music with a tiny amp pushing them...

I agree, the aa's may also be a great contender...
Imc, he wasn't referring to reworked Pioneers. New AA's are rework from completely different speaker.
I do agree HLV-1 are nice speakers, but someone (KEW maybe, i forgot) who had both highly preferred new AA's
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
I havent heard them yet, i am sure the low end is substantial compared to the hvl1's, something about a reworked pioneer bookshelf, turns me off. I wasn't super impressed with them in their "stock" form, they are ok, but the hvl1's are nice for a little music system, again, not going to fill a huge room, but for the money you can certainly enjoy music with a tiny amp pushing them...

I agree, the aa's may also be a great contender...
What BSA said.
Check the second link of post #8 above if you want more info.

The old Pioneers did not have that much bass and Murphy's mod did not do anything to improve bass.
 
rojo

rojo

Audioholic Samurai
@Old Fart Tom, where do you live? Maybe we could help you find something tasty on your local Craigslist. One can often find acceptable AVR's for ~$50, and occasionally some worthwhile speakers. Buying locally gives you a chance to audition before committing to buy, and not having to pay for shipping frees up funds for better speakers.
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
@Old Fart Tom, where do you live? Maybe we could help you find something tasty on your local Craigslist. One can often find acceptable AVR's for ~$50, and occasionally some worthwhile speakers. Buying locally gives you a chance to audition before committing to buy, and not having to pay for shipping frees up funds for better speakers.
I wonder if he's coming back. :/
 

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