Tannoy Sub, No Power, Replace Amp?

MilkyTech

MilkyTech

Enthusiast
I have a huge Tannoy PS350B sub from back in the day. 15" woofer. A while back something started happening with the amp where it just wouldn't power on, randomly. one day it would work, the next day no good. it never blows the fuse and I don't see any swollen caps. The days that it worked became less and less and now never powers up. Anyway, my question is: There is a brand new plate amp from a Def Tech Supercube I for sale, but that apparently is a 1500W amp! I am not worried about the plate not fitting, I will figure something out, but will this be way too much power for the Tannoy 15" woofer which only came with a 350W amp?
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
I have a huge Tannoy PS350B sub from back in the day. 15" woofer. A while back something started happening with the amp where it just wouldn't power on, randomly. one day it would work, the next day no good. it never blows the fuse and I don't see any swollen caps. The days that it worked became less and less and now never powers up. Anyway, my question is: There is a brand new plate amp from a Def Tech Supercube I for sale, but that apparently is a 1500W amp! I am not worried about the plate not fitting, I will figure something out, but will this be way too much power for the Tannoy 15" woofer which only came with a 350W amp?
It is not the power that is your problem.

That sub of yours is a ported sub with a sixth order alignment, not the usual fourth order alignment. So your sub is a QB 6 box and not the usual QB 4 box.

I don't believe QB6 boxes and alignment have come up before on these forums. However to cut a long story short, a QB 4 alignment will work, and should be used with a straight amp and one pair wire connection. It is an entirely passive arrangement.

A QB6 box on the other hand needs not only acoustic tuning of the box, but also an integrated specific electronic equalization circuit in the amp as part of the system tuning. There is no passive solution.

This alignment had a vogue quite a few years back and KEF had a flagship speaker with this alignment, with a specific equalizer in the tape loop. People never understood it and it was a commercial failure. They had an excellent bass however.

Now your sub has a pro BASH amp specific for that speaker. It can be used from and LFE output, but also has sophisticated bass management for recording studio mixing.

The Def Tech amp is totally unsuitable, as that has EQ for a small sealed sub. That us a QB2 box. The amp is powerful because sealed box subs are very inefficient as they use gobs of power to provide a 12 db per octave boost below the high F3 roll off point. They also have high pass filter to avoid blowing the driver.

So that sub amp is totally unsuitable for your situation and will almost certainly ruin the driver.

Unfortunately you need an exact replacement amp for your unit, or have yours repaired.

You could use a straight amp, but will no longer be a sub. It will be a bass module with a significantly higher F3.

Unfortunately for you sixth order alignments have been seldom used, are tricky and something few speaker engineers have experience with.

If you can't find another amp or repair yours, it is the end of the road for that sub.
 
MilkyTech

MilkyTech

Enthusiast
Wow, that's terrible news!
Would the same go for a Tannoy 110cs that I have that also has a bad amp (blows fuses immediately)? I don't see anything about pro BASH in the manual

Can you go a little further with the straight amp option? what exactly is a "bass module" as opposed to a sub? I happen to have an emotiva upa-2 laying around. Can I use that?
 
Last edited:
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
Wow, that's terrible news!
Would the same go for a Tannoy 110cs that I have that also has a bad amp (blows fuses immediately)? I don't see anything about pro BASH in the manual

Can you go a little further with the straight amp option? what exactly is a "bass module" as opposed to a sub? I happen to have an emotiva upa-2 laying around. Can I use that?
A unit is not considered a sub unless it reaches into the low 30 Hz range at least. Units that to not dig at least below 35 Hz are considered bass modules.

Your sixth order QB6 box, has an F3 of 29 Hz.

Now if you run it from a straight amp, then the enclosure would be miss tuned. It definitely will not reach 29 Hz, and in addition the bass quality may well not be right.

If we could find out the Thiel/Small parameters of the driver, and the inside dimension if the box, to get the box volume and also the port dimension, than the driver could be modeled, and you would know how the unit would function without Eq. I would suspect it will not dig very deep misaligned. Bass system miss alignments usually are very unsatisfactory. However it all depends on what you want for the system.

In addition the Eq network could be designed to make the unit work in the designed alignment.

As far as the other unit is concerned that looks to be a standard QB 4 box and should work with any amp with enough power and should not have Eq, although I do notice there is a 6th order high pass filter at 32 Hz in the amp. This is a very steep filter and I suspect is their to protect the driver from excess cone excursion as it decouples from the box tuning. So you will have to be careful not to overdrive it, if you use a standard power amp.
 
N

Nesh

Audiophyte
Can any one help with wireing set up on a RICCO BT77 I only have operation guide
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
Can any one help with wireing set up on a RICCO BT77 I only have operation guide
Don't crash someone else's thread.

That unit is still in production, so get the help you need from the manufacturer.
 
MilkyTech

MilkyTech

Enthusiast
Thank you so much for your ridiculous knowledge. The insight is much appreciated.
Right now both subs gets zero use and I'm only looking to add a bit of bass to my basement system which is just a low end Denon (588 I think?) with a pair of Polk RTi8 Towers with a matching center, so not much on the low end.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
Thank you so much for your ridiculous knowledge. The insight is much appreciated.
Right now both subs gets zero use and I'm only looking to add a bit of bass to my basement system which is just a low end Denon (588 I think?) with a pair of Polk RTi8 Towers with a matching center, so not much on the low end.
You could ave told us the application to start with.

Feel free to use any redneck solution you want.
 
MilkyTech

MilkyTech

Enthusiast
TLS Guy said:
You could ave told us the application to start with.

Feel free to use any redneck solution you want.
That was unnecessarily rude!:(
I was not being sarcastic when I thanked you for your ridiculous knowledge, it was a complement of the highest order. Being a techie myself (just not when it comes to audio), I was very impressed with your knowledge of the inner workings of a powered sub.
The application should have no bearing on the answer I was seeking. I shouldn't matter if I wanted more bass for my outhouse, or wherever it is rednecks relieve themselves. The point is that I have a sub with a bad amp and I want to utilize it. I'm not looking for "any redneck solution", I'm looking for the best redneck solution.
Thank you again. Your time was appreciated.
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
You might be able to find local repair shop, or get a replacement amp from Tannoy - but I highly doubt it.
As TLS Guy (a bit harshly but accurately) said - you can't just drop in any amp and expect it work correctly.
That sub originally in 2002 was worth almost $1500, which I think was a bit too much for it. Today closest relative would probably be this sub: http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-15h.html
 
MilkyTech

MilkyTech

Enthusiast
I bought the sub on ebay in '05 for $350 shipped and got plenty of use out of it when I used to spin records back in the day.
I searched for repair shops and even contacted tannoy years ago and was able to obtain some schematics from tannoy, but a guy I met who works on boards said they weren't what he needed and that was all tannoy had so no luck with conventional repair.
I was actually shopping on craigslist for a used sub to use in my basement for under $100 such as a Prosub 800 or something when I saw the listing for the Supercube amp and so figured I would inquire with those who would know if this could work in my dead tannoy. TLS Guy provided an excellent answer and I thanked him properly. I really don't get why he felt the need for the rude comment after I thanked him. I guess next time around I will immediately let everyone know the location my question pertains to so that those who have too much ego to help people with their basement systems can just move on to the next post.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
That was unnecessarily rude!:(
I was not being sarcastic when I thanked you for your ridiculous knowledge, it was a complement of the highest order. Being a techie myself (just not when it comes to audio), I was very impressed with your knowledge of the inner workings of a powered sub.
The application should have no bearing on the answer I was seeking. I shouldn't matter if I wanted more bass for my outhouse, or wherever it is rednecks relieve themselves. The point is that I have a sub with a bad amp and I want to utilize it. I'm not looking for "any redneck solution", I'm looking for the best redneck solution.
Thank you again. Your time was appreciated.
Please accept my sincere apologies. I misunderstood your post. I thought you where telling me my advice was above what was required, since you only wanted some bass for your basement system. So in essence I thought you were telling me I was wasting my time and took the word "rediculous" to be a gratuitous insult.

You do have a solution for that pro sub though. If you can get the Thiel/Small parameters of the driver from Tannoy, and also the box and port dimensions, then the correct equalizer could be designed to work an external amp. The Sub would then perform as intended. It is a pro sub and quite a nice unit.

Plate amps are unreliable devices, as you have found out. The correct equalizer and a Crown amp would keep that sub going for a long time.

By the way, that HSU sub recommended by Bored, would be very similar to your Tannoy, although I expect that Tannoy sub would almost certainly have much greater acoustic output. That sub was aimed at the pro recording studio market primarily.
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
By the way, that HSU sub recommended by Bored, would be very similar to your Tannoy, although I expect that Tannoy sub would almost certainly have much greater acoustic output. That sub was aimed at the pro recording studio market primarily.
True, probably greater output, but HSU would beat it at low bass extension as it was designed to work in HT, not recording studio
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
True, probably greater output, but HSU would beat it at low bass extension as it was designed to work in HT, not recording studio
I think the Tannoy would have a very similar bass extension to the two ports open Eq 3 curve.
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
I think the Tannoy would have a very similar bass extension to the two ports open Eq 3 curve.
Both are great subs - no doubt, but Tannoy is only 1 trick pony, while HSU is more versatile.
Tannoy is a spec'd Max spl at 116db peak at 1 meter at limiter, while
HSU's (1st gen btw) manages 118dB nominal sweep, but only 110db clean sweep. Since I don't how Tannoy measured - it could go ether way
As for bass extension:
Tannoy: Frequency Response: 29 Hz - 300 Hz +/- 3 dB
HSU (two ports) - 24-26hz - close enough,
BUT one port (at cost of a bit reduced output) extension goes to NOT VERY similar at all 16hz.
That's whole octave of difference....

Sources:
http://www.hilberink.nl/tannoy/ps350buserman.pdf
http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=100&mset=109
 
newsletter

  • RBHsound.com
  • BlueJeansCable.com
  • SVS Sound Subwoofers
  • Experience the Martin Logan Montis
Top