Marantz PM8005 or Rogue Sphinx with KEF R300

[rickyd]

Hello,
I currently own a Marantz PM8005 with SA8005 and KEF R300 speakers. I have an opportunity to trade the PM8005 for a Rogue Sphinx to pair with the KEFs. I am just looking for opinions on if this move would be worthwhile as I don't have the chance to really compare the two amps with the speakers. So, do any of you have opinions on this? I have listened to the Rogue compared to the older version of the Marantz but it was too long ago to maintain any sort of memory of the differences. Also, to any Rogue owners, do you have any complaints/annoyances with the Sphinx? Personally, It may seem nitpicky, but I really wish the remote was a little more robust functionally. In particular, I wish there was a power button on it. I like the PM8005, but I am always on the lookout for an "upgrade" and I think this might be it. Thanks for all of your help.

 

[PENG]

Hello,
I currently own a Marantz PM8005 with SA8005 and KEF R300 speakers. I have an opportunity to trade the PM8005 for a Rogue Sphinx to pair with the KEFs. I am just looking for opinions on if this move would be worthwhile as I don't have the chance to really compare the two amps with the speakers. So, do any of you have opinions on this? I have listened to the Rogue compared to the older version of the Marantz but it was too long ago to maintain any sort of memory of the differences. Also, to any Rogue owners, do you have any complaints/annoyances with the Sphinx? Personally, It may seem nitpicky, but I really wish the remote was a little more robust functionally. In particular, I wish there was a power button on it. I like the PM8005, but I am always on the lookout for an "upgrade" and I think this might be it. Thanks for all of your help.

I am not trying to sound sarcastic but I have to say most people who own well designed amps such as the PM8005 listen to their source media music and speakers but not their amps. I can list a bunch of reasons but I think you already know the reasons. So if by "upgrade" you meant to try different tube amps and/or tubes for non neutral/accurate sound then it may turn out to be worth while because once you get away from neutrality and accuracy, you may find the sound signature that is more to your liking.

The problem then is that you cannot really rely too much on user opinions because those who hold on to their Rogue Sphinx most likely because they like their sound signature but that does not mean you like them too. Some tube amps may also have different sound signatures with different speakers.

I hope you will get more useful opinions but in the end the best bet is to hear it for yourself.

 

[Steve81]

I am not trying to sound sarcastic but I have to say most people who own well designed amps such as the PM8005 listen to their source media music and speakers but not their amps.

Agreed. What is it you're looking to achieve with an upgrade, i.e. what is it you feel you're missing now?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

My opinion is, "Oh, hells no! Why?"

 

[rickyd]

Agreed. What is it you're looking to achieve with an upgrade, i.e. what is it you feel you're missing now?

I don't feel like I am missing anything with the 8005. The 8005 is very nice. The Rogue Sphinx has gotten many positive reviews so I thought that it would be fun to check out. I was able to contact a carrier of Marantz/Rogue/KEF and he offered some very insightful opinions on the Rogue vs Marantz. I've owned Marantz in one form or another for nearly 20 years. I am going to try the Rogue. If I don't like it, I will be able to sell and go to something else. I realize it's my ears that have to make the decision. That's why this is my first post on any forum like these - because I try to listen to the equipment before I buy and support local Hi-Fi Shops in the process. I guess all amps sound alike anyway, right?

 

[rickyd]

My opinion is, "Oh, hells no! Why?"

Why not? Seriously, why not?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Why not? Seriously, why not?

B/c IMO best case, it won't sound any better than the Marantz. Worst case, it will sound much worse than the Marantz.

 

[rickyd]

B/c IMO best case, it won't sound any better than the Marantz. Worst case, it will sound much worse than the Marantz.

I appreciate your opinion. You may be right. That's what is so fun about this hobby! I'll get the Rogue and I may not like it. But, it may be the greatest thing since sliced bread. Have you had direct experience with the Rogue?

 

[Steve81]

I don't feel like I am missing anything with the 8005. The 8005 is very nice. The Rogue Sphinx has gotten many positive reviews so I thought that it would be fun to check out.

So IOW, you're bored and have some cash burning a hole in your pocket.

I guess all amps sound alike anyway, right?

Not necessarily. However, I haven't seen anything to suggest that the 8005 is anything but a well designed, neutral amplifier. If the Rogue does sound markedly different, that suggests either a poor design, expectation bias on your part, or possibly both.

 

[rickyd]

So IOW, you're bored and have some cash burning a hole in your pocket.


Not necessarily. However, I haven't seen anything to suggest that the 8005 is anything but a well designed, neutral amplifier. If the Rogue does sound markedly different, that suggests either a poor design, expectation bias on your part, or possibly both.

Yes - that about sums it up. Bored with the Marantz - looking to make a change. The Rogue Sphinx is a unique design (Class D / Hybrid) which scratches an itch.

 

[PENG]

Yes - all amps sound the same blah blah blah.

I think you got it wrong, so far no one has said anything about all amps sound the same blah blah blah other than yourself. That Rogue amp will likely sound different to you.

It may be difficult to find user reviews on such amp, but here are some:

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?aamps&1362117806&openflup&17&4#17

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?aamps&1382741055

There are no shortages of professional reviews, here's a good one, complete with measurements:

http://www.stereophile.com/content/rogue-audio-sphinx-integrated-amplifier#RIZE3OoZcCcigowK.97

 

[rickyd]

Well, to all those that have been losing sleep over this unnecessary thread, I picked up the Rogue Sphinx and my initial impression is that I made the right decision. It's fantastic in every way. To my ears, it is superior to the PM8005. With that said, I think I will go back to enjoying the music. Thanks

 

[PENG]

Well, to all those that have been losing sleep over this unnecessary thread, I picked up the Rogue Sphinx and my initial impression is that I made the right decision. It's fantastic in every way. To my ears, it is superior to the PM8005. With that said, I think I will go back to enjoying the music. Thanks

Congratulations, and thanks for the update.

 

[Seth=L]

I could see the potential for the Sphinx to sound better given it's specs; 100 watts @ 8 ohms and 200 @ 4 ohms. Compare that to 70 watts @ 8 ohms and 100 watts @ 4 ohms. The power supply in the Sphinx is linear instead of switching which gives the Class D amplifier power reserves that aren't typically associated with Class D.

On extra power alone that lends the Sphinx the ability to sound much better. Could he get more clean power for less? Of course he could. (incoming firearms reference). I could buy a Hi-point that shoots .45acp, but I would prefer to buy a Colt 1911.

 

[KenM10759]

Could it be that the R300's enjoy a little more power to sound better? These are the speakers I have my eye on and while I'll start off powering them with my current Denon AVR-1912, my upgrade path to an AVR-X4100W (or similar) would bump me from 90w @ 8Ω up to 125w @ 8Ω.

Would I notice a similar improvement?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Could it be that the R300's enjoy a little more power to sound better? These are the speakers I have my eye on and while I'll start off powering them with my current Denon AVR-1912, my upgrade path to an AVR-X4100W (or similar) would bump me from 90w @ 8Ω up to 125w @ 8Ω.

Would I notice a similar improvement?

About 50% would say yes. About 50% would say no.

 

[KenM10759]

I should have seen that coming, and from all the reading I've done around here lately I'm split on agreeing with you.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I should have seen that coming, and from all the reading I've done around here lately I'm split on agreeing with you.

Well the X4100 is an upgrade from the 1912 in every way.

 

[PENG]

Could it be that the R300's enjoy a little more power to sound better? These are the speakers I have my eye on and while I'll start off powering them with my current Denon AVR-1912, my upgrade path to an AVR-X4100W (or similar) would bump me from 90w @ 8Ω up to 125w @ 8Ω.

Would I notice a similar improvement?

I am reasonably impressed with the 1912. You will be fine in a small/medium room sitting within 10 ft from the R300 if you listen to average SPL of less than 80 dB and listening to 2 channels only. The X4100W may get you a couple of dB of dynamic capability that may not be noticeable if unless you listen to material that has large peaks such as classical music. It has pre outs so you will have the flexibility to add more power if needed. The X4100W should also make you think your R300 sound better whether the difference is actually audible or not because it has better specs and costs much more.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Let's put it this way. If someone offered me a free X4100 vs 1912, I would take the X4100 exactly 100% of the time.

If I were buying for a main/primary system, I would buy the X4100 exactly 100% of the time.

But for secondary systems, I would buy something like the 1912, which is still a very good machine.