GM Fined $900M

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H

herbu

Audioholic Samurai
GM was fined $900M for criminally hiding ignition switch problems. People died.

Taxpayers lost $10B in the GM bailout. Not the "loan" that was paid back. Stock that was bought by the Govt then sold at a $10B loss.

Here we have a company that was mismanaged to the point of bankruptcy. A taxpayer bailout that ultimately cost us $10B that will never be paid back. And now criminal management. It is why I will never buy another GM product... and it's a shame because I like the Corvette and some of the Cadillacs.
 
R

rnatalli

Audioholic Ninja
GM will pay it no problem which is a shame because I was one of the folks that wanted to see them go under.
 
H

Hobbit

Senior Audioholic
herbu said:
GM was fined $900M for criminally hiding ignition switch problems. People died.

Taxpayers lost $10B in the GM bailout. Not the "loan" that was paid back. Stock that was bought by the Govt then sold at a $10B loss.

Here we have a company that was mismanaged to the point of bankruptcy. A taxpayer bailout that ultimately cost us $10B that will never be paid back. And now criminal management. It is why I will never buy another GM product... and it's a shame because I like the Corvette and some of the Cadillacs.
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... and the stock I owned disappeared...literally. Eventually they gave me some shares that equated to nothing at all. I will never own a GM product. On top of that when I get stuck in a GM rental I'm always disappointed.

In some ways I like the Finish way of punishing. Because it is punitive, the fines are based on a percentage of your income/revenue. GM is a company which had $150+ billion net revenue in 2014. Just in case, a billion is a million million.
 
H

herbu

Audioholic Samurai
The only thing our $10B bought was union votes and contributions for the dems. You can say what you want about the unions, but when assembly-line workers are paid like senior engineers and benefits are extraordinary, it's tough to compete in a world market.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
herbu said:
The only thing our $10B bought was union votes and contributions for the dems. You can say what you want about the unions, but when assembly-line workers are paid like senior engineers and benefits are extraordinary, it's tough to compete in a world market.
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And part of the irony is that a large part of the price of each car pre-bailout was $1500 for retiree pensions and benefits. That's one of the problems with huge corporations- even if someone no longer works there, there's a significant cost to the company when it has been negotiated into a contract. There's plenty of blame to go around for this- the company can just foist the additional cost onto their customers and the unions just want more. If anyone tries to say GM or most other auto workers weren't making more than most other jobs before the bailout, I'll call shenanigans. My dad worked for Harley Davidson until he retired in '82- he and his buddies used to complain about people making $18/hour just for pushing a broom and I would remind them that the broom-pushers were in the same union, so they really had no right to complain. They did not like my comments. BTW- $18/hr in 1980 is equivalent to $52.06/hr now.

I would say that without government intervention, competing in a World economy is impossible when people are paid the way they have been in the US.
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
The only car that GM ever made that I would love to have is a Buick GNX. It may have not been there fastest car but it had character inside and out. When I look into the interior of a Corvette, I walk away disgusted asking myself how garish and cheap can someone make an interior. It's ergonomic abortion that somehow survived the forceps. GM still have the worst car seats by far over any other automobile manufacturer that I know. I dont wish GM to go under as it will effect too many people's livelihoods. But make no mistake, that corporate shithole deserves to be go under for producing some of the worst crap on 4 wheels.
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
Chu Gai said:
No, it's a thousand million.
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In England it's a million million. In this instance, of course it is a thousand million.

Regarding the topic, if GM is too big to be allowed to fail as a national interest, then it should be nationalized.
 
rojo

rojo

Audioholic Samurai
On a similar subject, did you guys hear about Volkswagen loading software into their diesel cars to fool emissions testing?

Sent from my LG-VS980 using Forum Fiend OSP v1.3.3.
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
3db said:
The only car that GM ever made that I would love to have is a Buick GNX. It may have not been there fastest car but it had character inside and out. When I look into the interior of a Corvette, I walk away disgusted asking myself how garish and cheap can someone make an interior. It's ergonomic abortion that somehow survived the forceps. GM still have the worst car seats by far over any other automobile manufacturer that I know. I dont wish GM to go under as it will effect too many people's livelihoods. But make no mistake, that corporate shithole deserves to be go under for producing some of the worst crap on 4 wheels.
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Have you ever driven a new Corvette?
 
H

herbu

Audioholic Samurai
Hobbit said:
Just in case, a billion is a million million.
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shadyJ said:
In England it's a million million.
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In the immortal words of a friend of mine in high school band when the Director corrected his fingering of a particular note on the trumpet, "When did they change it?". :confused:
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
3db said:
No but I have sat in them in while attending car shows. I'm not talking out of my ass. Corvettes interiors are ridiculous.
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Frankly, 3db, I'm not sure what you're talking about. I've driven three of them, and a colleague at work has a 2014 convertible which I've ridden in, and the interiors are not uncomfortable or cheap or poorly constructed. The seats are very comfortable, and I'm probably in the 99th percentile of being difficult to please in that regard. The ergonomics of the seating position and the manual transmission shifter is equal to or better than the best in the world. The instruments beat anything Porsche has (and I'm a Porsche owner), and the feel of controls is pretty darn good. The optional leather has a hand comparable to the silly-expensive optional "natural leather" I special-ordered for my Cayman. I won't accuse you of talking out of your ass, but I'm not seeing what you see.

Nonetheless, the styling of the interior is not appealing to me. I prefer grace and subtlety, and the C7's interior is just plain over-styled for my taste. It seems to appeal more to younger buyers. I'd rate it just above the ugly Nissan GT-R, and when I see a C7 with that lurid red leather perhaps the GT-R looks better. FWIW, my wife likes it a lot, and thinks a convertible may be in her future. I'm not so sure... because the new Corvette isn't my kind of car, and I've owned three previous Corvettes, including a C6 (which I really didn't care for).

I think the C7 looks like it was styled by a 14 year-old boy in study hall, and the exterior fit and finish is not as good as the C6, no less a Porsche. I've grown weary of cars with long noses, where you essentially sit on the rear wheels, and the C7 is just as bad in that regard as my old BMW Z3 M Coupe, and almost as bad as the Z4 M Coupe. My tastes have also changed, and large displacement, slow-turning V8s aren't my thing anymore. (That new Ford flat-crank V8 looks damned interesting though.) So it's not as if I'm trying to convince you the Corvette is an awesome car to own, because I don't think so myself. Nonetheless, the C7 is a remarkable sports car, performance-wise, with better chassis technology than any sports car short of a few Italian supercars.
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
Irvrobinson said:
Frankly, 3db, I'm not sure what you're talking about. I've driven three of them, and a colleague at work has a 2014 convertible which I've ridden in, and the interiors are not uncomfortable or cheap or poorly constructed. The seats are very comfortable, and I'm probably in the 99th percentile of being difficult to please in that regard. The ergonomics of the seating position and the manual transmission shifter is equal to or better than the best in the world. The instruments beat anything Porsche has (and I'm a Porsche owner), and the feel of controls is pretty darn good. The optional leather has a hand comparable to the silly-expensive optional "natural leather" I special-ordered for my Cayman. I won't accuse you of talking out of your ass, but I'm not seeing what you see.

Nonetheless, the styling of the interior is not appealing to me. I prefer grace and subtlety, and the C7's interior is just plain over-styled for my taste. It seems to appeal more to younger buyers. I'd rate it just above the ugly Nissan GT-R, and when I see a C7 with that lurid red leather perhaps the GT-R looks better. FWIW, my wife likes it a lot, and thinks a convertible may be in her future. I'm not so sure... because the new Corvette isn't my kind of car, and I've owned three previous Corvettes, including a C6 (which I really didn't care for).

I think the C7 looks like it was styled by a 14 year-old boy in study hall, and the exterior fit and finish is not as good as the C6, no less a Porsche. I've grown weary of cars with long noses, where you essentially sit on the rear wheels, and the C7 is just as bad in that regard as my old BMW Z3 M Coupe, and almost as bad as the Z4 M Coupe. My tastes have also changed, and large displacement, slow-turning V8s aren't my thing anymore. (That new Ford flat-crank V8 looks damned interesting though.) So it's not as if I'm trying to convince you the Corvette is an awesome car to own, because I don't think so myself. Nonetheless, the C7 is a remarkable sports car, performance-wise, with better chassis technology than any sports car short of a few Italian supercars.
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Im not going argue tastes with you as it is subjective. That being said, the Corvette interiors are disgusting and feel cheap and gawdy, like its been styled by an adolescent youth. I do give kudos to the Vette for being a world class performer. No offense to you Irv at all. I'm just dissapointed that GM didnt finish their homework.
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
The interiors of a vette match their exteriors. Who the hell would buy a vette, which has an over-the-top exterior to begin with, and then complain the interiors are not conservatively styled?
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
shadyJ said:
The interiors of a vette match their exteriors. Who the hell would buy a vette, which has an over-the-top exterior to begin with, and then complain the interiors are not conservatively styled?
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That's not the conversation 3db and I were having. We were agreeing on not being visually appealing, disagreeing on materials, build quality, and comfort.

BTW, like I said, I'm not a C7 owner (or any Corvette), so I didn't take offense, nor would I even if I did own one.
 
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