Stereo vs 4ch Stereo.... ?

[Big Jake]

So I'm a big lover of listening to 5ch stereo, but I have a problem... I lose all the good lower end to the music when I do so. I have an idea why... it's because the amplifier in my little Denon AVR-2809 has split up the power between it's two channels to five, and it takes far, far more power to run the deep sounds than the highs. Am I right?

If so, would I solve this problem by using the preamp outs and buying separate amps? Been right on the verge of buying an Emotiva XPA-100 so I can biamp my new B&W Centre2 S2, and if I like it an Emotiva XPA-200 to power the B&W DM602 S3 surrounds.

Would this help bring out the lower end in listening to 5ch stereo, to free up the receiver to just power the front L,R?

 

[Big Jake]

Sorry... meant 5ch stereo.

Don't know why none of these boards ever give you the option to edit the thread title.

 

[markw]

It doesn't "split up" the power of the two front channels. Each channel still has it's own separate power amp.

IIRC, when you run these matrixed schemes, it changes the overall tonality of your system so adding more power won't solve the issue. Playing the source in it's native format might help.

 

[Big Jake]

Hmmm... found this...

7-Channel Equal Power Amplifier: The Denon AVR-2809CI features a 7-channel equal power, discrete amplifier. Each channel is rated at 115 watts RMS. The amp can power a 7.1-channel surround system in the main room; or it can power a 5.1-channel system and the surround back channels can be reassigned to power Zone 2 or Zone 3 speakers at the same time.

... so yes, actually, it does "split up" the power from one source, "amplifier," singular, all be it discretely and equally.

I also wouldn't call 5ch stereo a "scheme," and I also didn't expect to be snarked at or ridiculed for liking it.

That's the second time on this board that's happened. Now I'm either going to start getting an attitude myself, or expect the moderators to interject.

 

[WaynePflughaupt]

There were no ad hominem comments in Mark’s post. He’s right, 5-channel stereo doesn’t split up the power of the two front channels. It’s the source signal that is split out to the various amplifier channels. But to be fair, maybe splitting out the source signal to multiple amplifier channels isn’t really a “scheme.” I don’t rightly know. What word would you use?

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

 

[WaynePflughaupt]

By the way, my Yamaha receiver doesn’t lose the low end when I engage 5-channel stereo. Perhaps the way Denon accomplishes the signal-splitting scheme (sorry) isn’t up to par? Or, it could be that some of your additional channels have the speaker wires connected backwards (aka “out of phase”). That would definitely suck out the bass.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

 

[markw]

I also wouldn't call 5ch stereo a "scheme," and I also didn't expect to be snarked at or ridiculed for liking it.

That's the second time on this board that's happened. Now I'm either going to start getting an attitude myself, or expect the moderators to interject.

Sorry you think I gave you attitude or a snarky answer. Is that what you call it when you get the truth instead of the answer you wanted?

Ssometimes, a question can be answered in a few words. I'm not to waste words or promote obfuscation.

Don't worry. I won't offer you any more advice. But, feel free to complain to the mods that I hurt your feelings here. I'd love to see their reaction.

 

[highfigh]

Hmmm... found this...

7-Channel Equal Power Amplifier: The Denon AVR-2809CI features a 7-channel equal power, discrete amplifier. Each channel is rated at 115 watts RMS. The amp can power a 7.1-channel surround system in the main room; or it can power a 5.1-channel system and the surround back channels can be reassigned to power Zone 2 or Zone 3 speakers at the same time.

... so yes, actually, it does "split up" the power from one source, "amplifier," singular, all be it discretely and equally.

I also wouldn't call 5ch stereo a "scheme," and I also didn't expect to be snarked at or ridiculed for liking it.

That's the second time on this board that's happened. Now I'm either going to start getting an attitude myself, or expect the moderators to interject.

It doesn't split the power- it routes the decoded audio tracks to feed the number of channels selected by the user. If it was splitting the power five ways and had two 115W/ch amplifiers, each speaker would only receive 46W. The Zone 2 channels can be powered by the surround rear channels or fed to a power amp and those rear channels take nothing from the others.

I think you're misunderstanding the use of discrete- sometimes, the word is used to mean that the channels are discrete which is the case with AVRs. However, it's also used to mean that the output section uses discrete devices (transistors), not an output chip or "power pack" or "power module". The Pioneer SX-780 is an example of a receiver that doesn't have a discrete output section and it uses the STK-0050 output.

One reason you could be hearing less bass is because the positions of the speakers may be causing phase cancellations in the low frequencies whether you're using a subwoofer, or not. It's easy enough to test this- play it with two channels and move one speaker, listening for the differences in the sound. If you can, use a mono source and try to get them to sound the same. When you hear that they're as close to the same as possible (or, until you get tired and decide that it's close enough) turn on the other channels and position them so the bass isn't weaker. You need to make sure the sound from all speakers reaches you at the same time.

 

[herbu]

I also wouldn't call 5ch stereo a "scheme," and I also didn't expect to be snarked at or ridiculed for liking it.

Hahahaha! If you're joking, that's a good one! If you're serious... seriously?!?

 

[herbu]

So I'm a big lover of listening to 5ch stereo, but I have a problem...

Jake, you got that right. Unfortunately, your problem has nothing to do with 5ch stereo.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

It all depends on the system and how it is set up.

On my system, the bass is EXACTLY the same whether it is 2Ch or 5Ch or 7Ch stereo.

Is your AVR set up as 5.1 or 5.0? It may not matter, but just something to look into.