Whole house audio from digital sources?

[Peter Kappelhof]

Currently I have a Yamaha RX-V565 that I use for home theater as well as music. I use the analog 'audio out' jacks to run audio cables to a secondary amplifier and then to a powered speaker switch box which feeds my whole house audio speakers. I cannot output any digital sources to my whole house audio. I really don't want to have to buy a new AV receiver. I'm wondering how it would work if I were to use a powered, amplified HDMI splitter connected to the one HDMI output from my AV receiver. I could output one of the split HDMI signals to the TV and the other one to an HDMI to analog audio down converter and then to my whole house audio secondary speaker amplifier. I'm looking at this splitter from Monoprice: http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_i...seq=1&format=2

I've also found this J-Tech Digital Premium Quality HDMI to HDMI + Audio (SPDIF + RCA Stereo) Audio Extractor Converter: http://www.jtechdigital.com/video-accessories/j-tech-digital-premium-quality-hdmi-to-hdmi-audio-spdif-rca-stereo-audio-extractor-converter-plus-hdmi-cable.html

Would either of these options work? Does anyone have another idea? or is what I want to accomplish just not doable?

 

[XEagleDriver]

Peter,
I have a similar Yamaha AVR (RX-V563) and used the assignable Surround Back/Bi-Amp amplifiers in a "fake bi-amp" configuration to provide hi-level (i.e. speaker) L/R stereo signals to a speaker selector switch which in-turn powers my whole house audio (in my case three zones with one speaker pair each for a porch, a deck, and a master bath).
- This only works if your Main Zone is a 5.1 or less (i.e. not using Surround Back speakers in a 7.1 configuration)
- The advantages of this arrangement is all the digital sources present on the main zone are readily available to the "other" zones.
- The disadvantage of this arrangement is the "other zones" are tied to the main zone's source selection; i.e. not a true Zone-2 because the "other zones" source is always the same as the main zone (TV, CD, DVD, BT, etc.)

I looked at the V565 manual/picture on Yamaha's web site and you have the same option (reference Bi-Amp under Advanced Setup on p.45). Since you are also using a speaker selector switch, this may work for you if the number of "other zones" you need is just a few, like in my case.

How many pairs of speakers/zones do you need to power?

If this sounds like a potential solution for your situation, I will gladly assist in explaining the set-up and use of the "fake bi-amp" for this purpose if you like.

Cheers,
XEagleDriver

 

[agarwalro]

I've also found this J-Tech Digital Premium Quality HDMI to HDMI + Audio (SPDIF + RCA Stereo) Audio Extractor Converter: http://www.jtechdigital.com/video-accessories/j-tech-digital-premium-quality-hdmi-to-hdmi-audio-spdif-rca-stereo-audio-extractor-converter-plus-hdmi-cable.html

This should work. Your HDMI digital signal can only be regular old PCM, DD or DTS. DD+, DD TrueHD and DTS MA will not work.

The Amazon page has tons of questions and answers from people using it.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00BIQER0E

 

[highfigh]

Currently I have a Yamaha RX-V565 that I use for home theater as well as music. I use the analog 'audio out' jacks to run audio cables to a secondary amplifier and then to a powered speaker switch box which feeds my whole house audio speakers. I cannot output any digital sources to my whole house audio. I really don't want to have to buy a new AV receiver. I'm wondering how it would work if I were to use a powered, amplified HDMI splitter connected to the one HDMI output from my AV receiver. I could output one of the split HDMI signals to the TV and the other one to an HDMI to analog audio down converter and then to my whole house audio secondary speaker amplifier. I'm looking at this splitter from Monoprice: http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_i...seq=1&format=2

I've also found this J-Tech Digital Premium Quality HDMI to HDMI + Audio (SPDIF + RCA Stereo) Audio Extractor Converter: http://www.jtechdigital.com/video-accessories/j-tech-digital-premium-quality-hdmi-to-hdmi-audio-spdif-rca-stereo-audio-extractor-converter-plus-hdmi-cable.html

Would either of these options work? Does anyone have another idea? or is what I want to accomplish just not doable?

Do these source units not have an analog output? If not, the converter (or, a better one and a switch for optical inputs) will work. If you do have analog outputs on the sources, connect those to the matching input used for their digital signal.

It has to become analog somewhere, so you may as well do it with as few extra parts as possible. Besides- your Zone 2 isn't the main listening area and you're not listening as critically. Or, are you?

 

[Peter Kappelhof]

Thank you all for the responses. Since I wrote my post to test whether I'm getting audio out to the HDMI out jack when not using a video input I played one of my digital audio sources through the receiver, turned the receiver volume almost all the way down and turned on the TV speakers but got no sound so It looks like these devices won't work for me.

XEagleDriver - Thanks for your intriguing suggestion. I would like to pursue your idea further. I looked at the RX-V565 manual but I don't think I understand how to make this work. I understand that I would be using the Surround Back speaker terminals (and sacrificing any future 7.1 set up). I don't mind that the second 'zone' would have the same output as the main room - in fact that's exactly what I want. I use a secondary amp (AudioSource Amp 100) that feeds an Audioplex PT-6 powered speaker selector switch which is connected to six pairs of speakers in different rooms and patio/deck which all have separate local volume controls. Since I would be using 'speaker level' outputs from the receiver would I delete the amp from the set-up? I like having a separate master volume control that the secondary amp gives me but I guess I'll have to sacrifice something.

I appreciate your offer to explain the set-up and would like to take you up on that.

 

[agarwalro]

Thank you all for the responses. Since I wrote my post to test whether I'm getting audio out to the HDMI out jack when not using a video input I played one of my digital audio sources through the receiver, turned the receiver volume almost all the way down and turned on the TV speakers but got no sound so It looks like these devices won't work for me.

In the settings you need to select the correct pass through mode, Amp or TV or Amp+TV.

 

[Peter Kappelhof]

In the settings you need to select the correct pass through mode, Amp or TV or Amp+TV.

Thanks. I assume you mean settings on the receiver? I'll try to figure that out.

 

[Peter Kappelhof]

Peter,
I have a similar Yamaha AVR (RX-V563) and used the assignable Surround Back/Bi-Amp amplifiers in a "fake bi-amp" configuration to provide hi-level (i.e. speaker) L/R stereo signals to a speaker selector switch which in-turn powers my whole house audio (in my case three zones with one speaker pair each for a porch, a deck, and a master bath).
- This only works if your Main Zone is a 5.1 or less (i.e. not using Surround Back speakers in a 7.1 configuration)
- The advantages of this arrangement is all the digital sources present on the main zone are readily available to the "other" zones.
- The disadvantage of this arrangement is the "other zones" are tied to the main zone's source selection; i.e. not a true Zone-2 because the "other zones" source is always the same as the main zone (TV, CD, DVD, BT, etc.)

I looked at the V565 manual/picture on Yamaha's web site and you have the same option (reference Bi-Amp under Advanced Setup on p.45). Since you are also using a speaker selector switch, this may work for you if the number of "other zones" you need is just a few, like in my case.

How many pairs of speakers/zones do you need to power?

If this sounds like a potential solution for your situation, I will gladly assist in explaining the set-up and use of the "fake bi-amp" for this purpose if you like.

Cheers,
XEagleDriver

XEagleDriver - (I should have replied to you directly. I'm new to this.) Thanks for your intriguing suggestion. I would like to pursue your idea further. I looked at the RX-V565 manual but I don't think I understand how to make this work. I understand that I would be using the Surround Back speaker terminals (and sacrificing any future 7.1 set up). I don't mind that the second 'zone' would have the same output as the main room - in fact that's exactly what I want. I use a secondary amp (AudioSource Amp 100) that feeds an Audioplex PT-6 powered speaker selector switch which is connected to six pairs of speakers in different rooms and patio/deck which all have separate local volume controls. Since I would be using 'speaker level' outputs from the receiver would I delete the amp from the set-up? I like having a separate master volume control that the secondary amp gives me but I guess I'll have to sacrifice something.

I appreciate your offer to explain the set-up and would like to take you up on that.

 

[XEagleDriver]

Peter,
BTW: I call it a fake bi-amp because the receiver is set to "think" it is supplying a bi-amp stereo signal to one set of speakers, when in fact it is simultaneously driving the Front L/R speakers in the HT and bi-amp is diverted to the speaker selector switch to power the other zones.

To ensure the fake bi-amp would not be under powering your other zones, I compared the AudioSource Amp 100's power output (quoted on www.bhphotovideo.com as 50W per channel, conditions unknown) to the RX-V565's power (quoted in manual as 90W per channel @ 1kHz, 0.9% THD, and 8 ohm). It is not stated, but power rating in the manual is for only 2 channels driven, not 5 or 7 (marketing weenies).
Note: The RX-V565 will not actually deliver 90W per channel when driving all 7 channels, but it should be able to supply approximately the 50W per channel you are currently getting from the AS 100.

INSTRUCTIONS: Here is how to set up the fake bi-amp.

1) Wiring: Connect the Surround Back/Bi-Amp speaker outputs to the speaker selector input. The rest of the speaker selector outputs are what you already have done.
IMPORTANT: The speaker selector must have, and you must use, an overload protection circuit!!

2) Receiver (AVR) Settings:
1) Get into the Advanced Settings mode (see manual p.45) by starting with the AVR in standby. Then press STANDBY/ON button while holding the STRAIGHT button on the front panel.
2) You should see "ADVANCED SETUP" on the AVR display
3) Use the PROGRAM arrows to toggle until you see "BI-AMP - OFF" on the AVR display.
4) Use the STRAIGHT button to toggle to "BI-AMP - ON" on the AVR display.
5) Press the STANDBY/ON button to turn the AVR off and save the new Advanced Setup setting.
When you press STANDBY/ON button to power back up, you should be good to go.

3) Other Zone Controls:
1) Source will be what the AVR main zone is set too.
2) Volume will be what the AVR main zone is set too, as modified by the speaker selector switch (if it has volume controls) or individual room zone controls (if you have these).
3) Zone Opt Out: Un-select any zone you do not want to use with the buttons on the speaker selector switch.

Easy peasy!!
XEagleDriver

 

[Peter Kappelhof]

Peter,
BTW: I call it a fake bi-amp because the receiver is set to "think" it is supplying a bi-amp stereo signal to one set of speakers, when in fact it is simultaneously driving the Front L/R speakers in the HT and bi-amp is diverted to the speaker selector switch to power the other zones.

To ensure the fake bi-amp would not be under powering your other zones, I compared the AudioSource Amp 100's power output (quoted on www.bhphotovideo.com as 50W per channel, conditions unknown) to the RX-V565's power (quoted in manual as 90W per channel @ 1kHz, 0.9% THD, and 8 ohm). It is not stated, but power rating in the manual is for only 2 channels driven, not 5 or 7 (marketing weenies).
Note: The RX-V565 will not actually deliver 90W per channel when driving all 7 channels, but it should be able to supply approximately the 50W per channel you are currently getting from the AS 100.

INSTRUCTIONS: Here is how to set up the fake bi-amp.

1) Wiring: Connect the Surround Back/Bi-Amp speaker outputs to the speaker selector input. The rest of the speaker selector outputs are what you already have done.
IMPORTANT: The speaker selector must have, and you must use, an overload protection circuit!!

2) Receiver (AVR) Settings:
1) Get into the Advanced Settings mode (see manual p.45) by starting with the AVR in standby. Then press STANDBY/ON button while holding the STRAIGHT button on the front panel.
2) You should see "ADVANCED SETUP" on the AVR display
3) Use the PROGRAM arrows to toggle until you see "BI-AMP - OFF" on the AVR display.
4) Use the STRAIGHT button to toggle to "BI-AMP - ON" on the AVR display.
5) Press the STANDBY/ON button to turn the AVR off and save the new Advanced Setup setting.
When you press STANDBY/ON button to power back up, you should be good to go.

3) Other Zone Controls:
1) Source will be what the AVR main zone is set too.
2) Volume will be what the AVR main zone is set too, as modified by the speaker selector switch (if it has volume controls) or individual room zone controls (if you have these).
3) Zone Opt Out: Un-select any zone you do not want to use with the buttons on the speaker selector switch.

Easy peasy!!
XEagleDriver

Thanks so much for this information, XEagleDriver. My speaker selector provides full-time automatic circuit protection. I assume that whatever volume the main amp is set to will govern the max volume of the speaker zones. My selector switch doesn't have a volume control. If it did, since it isn't an amplifier, I assume it would only be able to adjust the volume down below the volume input from the main receiver. One of the things I like about having a secondary amp for my zoned speakers is that I can set the amp volume level to the "highest comfortable setting" and then fine-tune volume in each zone with the individual zone controls. I need to mull this over before I go ahead and make this change.

I'm also still considering the J-Tech audio extractor as a way to get a composite analog signal from all my sources into my secondary amp. I'm just not convinced about the quality and reliability of such a unit, although it looks like a lot of people make something similar. At +/- $30 it wouldn't be a big investment to check it out. Do you have any experience with these devices?

 

[XEagleDriver]

Thanks so much for this information, XEagleDriver. My speaker selector provides full-time automatic circuit protection. I assume that whatever volume the main amp is set to will govern the max volume of the speaker zones. My selector switch doesn't have a volume control. If it did, since it isn't an amplifier, I assume it would only be able to adjust the volume down below the volume input from the main receiver. One of the things I like about having a secondary amp for my zoned speakers is that I can set the amp volume level to the "highest comfortable setting" and then fine-tune volume in each zone with the individual zone controls. I need to mull this over before I go ahead and make this change.

I'm also still considering the J-Tech audio extractor as a way to get a composite analog signal from all my sources into my secondary amp. I'm just not convinced about the quality and reliability of such a unit, although it looks like a lot of people make something similar. At +/- $30 it wouldn't be a big investment to check it out. Do you have any experience with these devices?

Peter,
You are correct you will only be able to adjust the volume down. Some speaker selector switches have individal volume controls for each set of speakers.
Copy you will need to decide between the control the amp provides versus having the digital sources.
I do not have experience with the signal converters.

XEagleDriver

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