Loudspeaker Upgrade: Decisions, Decisions, Decisions

[Irvrobinson]

I know you have carefully listened to a lot of great gear and value your opinion.

What did you find wanting in the Focal 1028Be?

Not enough bass for the price. The midrange and highs are pretty sweet, but even a grand piano lacked weight the time I heard them, in a private home. The owner claimed he carefully set them for smoothest response based on test tones. Nice fit and finish too, but for $9K per pair I think one can do better.

 

[PENG]

Not enough bass for the price. The midrange and highs are pretty sweet, but a even a grand piano lacked weight the time I heard them, in a private home. The owner claimed he carefully set them for smoothest response based on test tones. Nice fit and finish too, but for $9K per pair I think one can do better.

I agree, the bass is adequate in my small 8X12X20 room but won't be in a larger room.

 

[Irvrobinson]

I agree, the bass is adequate in my small 8X12X20 room but won't be in a larger room.

When I heard them it was in a relatively large "great room". Are you using subs with the 1028Be?

 

[PENG]

When I heard them it was in a relatively large "great room". Are you using subs with the 1028Be?

I tried, it didn't make a difference in that room. The room is also my HT room so it is filled with furnitures, TV, the HT speakers and subs. The effective volume of the room is really small. Surprisingly I found the much larger S8s lacking in bass too. Similarly sized Revel F series definitely have more weighty bass.

 

[MervD]

It sounds like you have a pretty nice system right now. You may want to ask yourself why do you want to upgrade? What are you unhappy about with your current speakers? Have you address speaker placement, seating placement, room acoustics first? What are you looking for in new speakers that your current speakers are lacking (IE. more bass extension, more detailed highs)? Ask these questions first!

Thanks for taking the time to reply.
After purchasing the S550i, ( the IA has met all the Krell marketing hype and I am very pleased with the performance and seamless integration into my existing system) I believe that I can add the element of much improved 2 channel application.
I am looking to replace the 100's as IMhumbleO i can access all of the Krell's musicality with a step up in speakers for better sound stage, imaging and pinpoint accuracy and speed

 

[MervD]

Merv, you've got 275 watts per channel to play with. I don't think the sensitivity of the PSB's will be a limiting factor in your listening experience. You're reading numbers on paper and not correlating how they relate to the real world.

I was incorrect in the sensitivity as they are rated at 92. For the money, $,3,600 each I will definately find a dealer close by and audition them, hopefully with one of the contenders

 

[markw]

I was incorrect in the sensitivity as they are rated at 92. For the money, $,3,600 each I will definately find a dealer close by and audition them, hopefully with one of the contenders

Good move. I haven't heard these but I've always been impressed with PSB when I heard them.

Seriously, when you're dropping that kind of money, it only makes sense to do your due diligence. Also, try to pinpoint what you don't like bout your current speakers before comparing. Remember, a new broom sweeps clean.

Bring music you're familiar with and take your time. ...and make sure they don't "accidentally" have a sub in the mix.

 

[PENG]

Thanks for taking the time to reply.
After purchasing the S550i, ( the IA has met all the Krell marketing hype and I am very pleased with the performance and seamless integration into my existing system) I believe that I can add the element of much improved 2 channel application.
I am looking to replace the 100's as IMhumbleO i can access all of the Krell's musicality with a step up in speakers for better sound stage, imaging and pinpoint accuracy and speed

If you can still find the PSB Synchrony One, they are among the best sounding speakers I have heard. They are 4 ohm rated but you have the right amp for them. I have not heard its successor Image T3 though.

 

[3db]

If you can still find the PSB Synchrony One, they are among the best sounding speakers I have heard. They are 4 ohm rated but you have the right amp for them. I have not heard its successor Image T3 though.

You raise a good point. Some members in other forums heard both (but not side by each ) and from their memory couldn't decide whether the Synchrony or the T3 was a better speaker.

 

[PENG]

You raise a good point. Some members in other forums heard both (but not side by each ) and from their memory couldn't decide whether the Synchrony or the T3 was a better speaker.

The T3 costs much more so they better sound better but you never know without a side by side..

 

[herbu]

The T3 costs much more so they better sound better but you never know without a side by side..

Agree. Even among reputable high quality speakers, higher price does not necessarily equal better sound. It could mean better quality cabinets/finish. It could mean higher demand driving higher price. It could mean different sound, but "better" is subjective. Try your best to give them both a listen. And the difference may be so subtle, a "side by side" is the only way to hear it.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

I'll just leave this here http://philharmonicaudio.com/

Not sure if OP missed that post, but IMO phil3 are probably one of the best speakers you can buy and Dennis's current flagship - Phil 3 speakers is right at OP's budget.

His speakers could easily compared to speakers cost several times more.

One more option is Jim Salk speakers.

 

[herbu]

phil3 are probably one of the best speakers you can buy...easily compared to speakers cost several times more.
One more option is Jim Salk speakers.

Agree, and exactly my point. You can pay more, (maybe much more), for beautiful Salk cabinets... but the sound is not indisputably better.

 

[3db]

Agree. Even among reputable high quality speakers, higher price does not necessarily equal better sound. It could mean better quality cabinets/finish. It could mean higher demand driving higher price. It could mean different sound, but "better" is subjective. Try your best to give them both a listen. And the difference may be so subtle, a "side by side" is the only way to hear it.

Agreed... Thats's why I mentioned that the member in the other forum didn't do a side by side so its really difficult to tell. PSB releases solid products for the money and I doubt their high end would be an exception to their philosophy.

 

[MervD]

It sounds like you have a pretty nice system right now. You may want to ask yourself why do you want to upgrade? What are you unhappy about with your current speakers? Have you address speaker placement, seating placement, room acoustics first? What are you looking for in new speakers that your current speakers are lacking (IE. more bass extension, more detailed highs)? Ask these questions first!

Thanks for taking time to respond for my request for insight into the replacement of the Studio 100's. They are a decent speaker for the price, I paid $3,000.00 CDN + taxes. However, I am not a fan of the aluminum , nor the mid's base not so bad.

I am looking to extract as much musicality from the S550i as possible and am very happy with it's analogue 2 channel performance: no strain and excellent black background quietness

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I am looking to extract as much musicality from the S550i as possible

I don't think there's anything to extract from the S550i itself.

More like extracting from the ORIGINAL SOURCE.

 

[MervD]

Greetings all. I have had some discussion with a local Focal dealer, South Western Ontario) and he has provided some rather interesting information on MSR price for the 1038 Be, a good comparison to the B & W 803 Diamond ( 3 bass drivers) and the 1028BE, a good comparison to the B & W 804 Diamond ( 2 bass drivers).

Focal has a reduced the MSR for the two above referenced speakers due to difference in finish. 1038BE @ $9,999.00 /pr and the 1028BE @ $6,999.00 /pr. and is willing to negotiate.

In contrast, the 803 Diamond @ $11,000.00 /pr and the 804 Diamond at $7,500.00 /pr and the tight collared B & W guys, in most cases will not budge from MSR price.All pricing in Canadian funds.

I also heard that B & W will be launching a newer 800 series version costing in the range of 30% more than the current series?

If this happens, from a pragmatic perspective, I truly believe IMhumbleO that they will loose a significant market share.

What do you think! Cheers

 

[3db]

Greetings all. I have had some discussion with a local Focal dealer, South Western Ontario) and he has provided some rather interesting information on MSR price for the 1038 Be, a good comparison to the B & W 803 Diamond ( 3 bass drivers) and the 1028BE, a good comparison to the B & W 804 Diamond ( 2 bass drivers).

Focal has a reduced the MSR for the two above referenced speakers due to difference in finish. 1038BE @ $9,999.00 /pr and the 1028BE @ $6,999.00 /pr. and is willing to negotiate.

In contrast, the 803 Diamond @ $11,000.00 /pr and the 804 Diamond at $7,500.00 /pr and the tight collared B & W guys, in most cases will not budge from MSR price.All pricing in Canadian funds.

I also heard that B & W will be launching a newer 800 series version costing in the range of 30% more than the current series?

If this happens, from a pragmatic perspective, I truly believe IMhumbleO that they will loose a significant market share.

What do you think! Cheers

Since you live in Ontario, check out PSB's ( a Canadian speaker manufacturer in Pickering) new Imagine T3 .. Here's what Sound & Vision magazine has to say about them

http://www.soundandvision.com/content/psb-imagine-t3-speaker-system-review#YEuxePFxslA0LT0H.97


Conclusion
Is PSB’s Imagine T3 system otherwise perfect? Of course not—though frankly, I’m straining to find shortcomings, other than the cost. Even for a full-sized 5.1 setup, the Canadian suite is far from cheap. But then again, for what it delivers—reference-class performance in every parameter—the PSB suite is, if not a downright bargain in today’s high end, a very fairly priced offering.
Read more at http://www.soundandvision.com/content/psb-imagine-t3-speaker-system-review-page-2#dAA3Ci27ePhzdmHP.99


Test Bench
L/R Sensitivity: 88 dB from 500 Hz to 2 kHz

Center Sensitivity: 88 dB from 500 Hz to 2 kHz

Surround Sensitivity: 86 dB from 500 Hz to 2 kHz



image: http://cdn.soundandvision.com/images/715psb.meas.jpg

This graph shows the quasi-anechoic (employing close-miking of all woofers) frequency response of the Imagine T3 L/R (purple trace), SubSeries 300 subwoofer (blue trace), Imagine C3 center channel (green trace), and Imagine S surround (red trace). All passive loudspeakers were measured with grilles at a distance of 1 meter with a 2.83-volt input and scaled for display purposes.

The Imagine T3’s listening-window response (a five-point average of axial and +/–15-degree horizontal and vertical responses) measures +0.96/–2.72 decibels from 200 hertz to 10 kilohertz. The –3dB point is at 28 Hz, and the –6dB point is at 24 Hz. Impedance reaches a minimum of 4.40 ohms at 90 Hz and a phase angle of –35.82 degrees at 71 Hz.

The Imagine C3’s listening-window response measures +2.10/–5.42 dB from 200 Hz to 10 kHz. An average of axial and +/–15-degree horizontal responses measures +2.79/–5.83 dB from 200 Hz to 10 kHz. The –3dB point is at 55 Hz, and the –6dB point is at 48 Hz. Impedance reaches a minimum of 4.66 ohms at 992 Hz and a phase angle of –63.48 degrees at 134 Hz.

The Imagine S’s three-face averaged response in dipole mode measures +1.07/–5.29 dB from 200 Hz to 10 kHz. The –3dB point is at 95 Hz, and the –6dB point is at 82 Hz. Impedance reaches a minimum of 5.64 ohms at 221 Hz and a phase angle of –48.96 degrees at 136 Hz.

The SubSeries 300’s close-miked response, normalized to the level at 80 Hz, indicates that the lower –3dB point is at 23 Hz and the –6dB point is at 21 Hz. The upper –3dB point is at 133 Hz using the LFE input.—MJP


Read more at http://www.soundandvision.com/content/psb-imagine-t3-speaker-system-review-test-bench#mRFRbALVfw2IHwBL.99

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Have you been able to tell an unequivocal improvement with any of these more expensive speakers over your Studio 100 v.5?

Treble so much better?

Midrange so much better?

Bass so much better?

Anything so much better?

 

[3db]

Have you had a chance to audition the T3s?