Best ~$3000 Amp for HT & Music

[Jayman88]

It's time for an upgrade and I need advice on a new amp solution. I hope you all can help me out.

I am looking for an amp solution that can do very decent quality for stereo music and can also do 7.1. I see two scenarios - a single 7.1 amp, or 2 amps - a higher quality stereo amp and a separate 5.1 amp. I am leaning toward the second option as music quality is important to me.

I will be pairing this with a Marantz AV 8801 and ACI Sapphire XLs (small 2-ways) with an active ACI sub
I listen to music in stereo only
I prefer to keep the same brand for both amps in the second option
I would like to keep it within $3000 total but can go up some for the right solution
I don't need a ton of wattage, but I would say 125-150 RMS(8 ohms) with moderate headroom as I may change my speakers soon
I have a preference for clean detailed sound with a hint of warmth in the mids, but will consider all decent options

I have been looking at Anthem and Parasound but am really curious to know what specific setups you recommend.

Thank you in advance for your help!

 

[PENG]

In my experience at the 3K price point and the 125-150W range, you don't have to worry about details and warmth if you stick with the reputable brands. Reviewers, paid or not, used those words freely according to their impression of their setup at the time but it is best to ignore them except for the often accompanying bench test results. Those amps should be, and typically are designed to produce accurate/neutral sound without any audible kind of coloration/"voice". So in that price range, I would think your are safe with Marantz (the MM series), Parasound, ATI, Outlaw and Emotiva amps. I have no experience with the latter three but recommend them base mostly on what I have read about them.

Since you listen to music in Stereo (assuming you meant 2 channel) only, the 2nd option you mentioned is a good one. In that case though, there is no technical reason for going with the same brand. You could spend more on a more powerful amp such as the Parasound A21 or ATI2002 and something less powerful like the 50 lbs Outlaw Model 5000 or an Emotiva XPA-5. The Model 5000 is a new product but the price is enticing, and is powerful based on the AH review linked below.

http://www.audioholics.com/amplifier-reviews/outlaw-5000/conclusion

 

[Cos]

I would suggest ATI or Outlaw for 7.1 or Outlaw Audio in that price range. You can easily get a 7 Channel version the ATI 2000 series or 7700 Outlaw for well under 3k. It's my understanding they are pretty much one and the same since ATI makes their amps. If I didn't already have my amps, I would have opted and got the ATI just for the sake of having less amps to drive 7.2.4. (Will require a 3 amp solution w/Parasound)


IF you can find a used Parasound Halo A52 5 Channel Amp, you could add the A23 and have a very nice inexpensive 7.1 setup. I have the A52 A23 in my bedroom and the A51 A21 in my HT room and am completely happy with sound quality. Not sure why Parasound discontinued the A52 because it is such stellar sound quality for an inexpensive 5 channel amp.

 

[herbu]

It's time for an upgrade and I need advice on a new amp solution.

I don't need a ton of wattage, but I would say 125-150 RMS(8 ohms) with moderate headroom as I may change my speakers soon

Unless your motivation is something other than sound quality, I'm not at all sure you need to spend $3k on amps to use w/ your 8801.
Have you considered just a good 3 or 5-channel amp?
I use the Emotiva XPA-5 for my 7.2 channel system. The XPA-5 powers L/C/R and side surrounds. The AVR powers my rear surrounds. It is more than enough at 200wpc, and the rear surrounds get so little signal in movies, the AVR provides more than enough for them. You could do that, or even use just a 3 channel amp for your L/C/R, and let your 8801 drive all surrounds. I would seriously question whether you could hear the difference between that and separate 7 channel amps. AND it would leave you more $ for your speaker upgrades.

 

[Swerd]

I am looking for an amp solution that can do very decent quality for stereo music and can also do 7.1. I see two scenarios - a single 7.1 amp, or 2 amps - a higher quality stereo amp and a separate 5.1 amp. I am leaning toward the second option as music quality is important to me.

I will be pairing this with a Marantz AV 8801 and ACI Sapphire XLs (small 2-ways) with an active ACI sub.
I listen to music in stereo only.
I prefer to keep the same brand for both amps in the second option.
I would like to keep it within $3000 total but can go up some for the right solution.
I don't need a ton of wattage, but I would say 125-150 RMS(8 ohms) with moderate headroom as I may change my speakers soon.

As herbu suggested, you might do well if you get a good AV receiver (in the 125 wpc range) that has preamp output jacks, and add a separate 2- or 3-channel amp to drive your front speakers. The AV receiver will easily power the rear channels. This will save a lot of money and should deliver equivalent sound quality to what you are proposing.

herbu – The Marantz AV8801 is a preamp/processor not a receiver. Otherwise, I agree with your idea. It certainly works well for me .

Cos – Although its true that ATI builds Outlaw amps, that doesn't automatically mean they are the same. ATI contracts with other companies to manufacture amps for them, built to the contract company's specifications. ATI seems to sell good products under its own name. They seem to be the only company in the USA that still makes most or all of its own major components, such as steel chassis parts and power supply transformers. They clearly understand how to design and make good amplifiers, and they probably consult with others for whom they manufacture amps under contract. But that doesn't guarantee that all products ATI produces are the same quality. Just the same, I agree with your general idea – I trust that anything ATI makes will be a good product .

 

[Jayman88]

Using the AV receiver as both preamp for the main 2-channel AND as the amp for the center and surrounds is an interesting option. My only concern is if the electronics in the receiver are not good enough to ensure a very good sounding 2-channel experience. The Marantz 8801/8802 are both supposed to strong in this area. I am spending extra on the amp for the main channels to get better sound quality and wouldn't want it to be lost by using the receiver as the preamp. Any thoughts on this?

 

[Swerd]

Using the AV receiver as both preamp for the main 2-channel AND as the amp for the center and surrounds is an interesting option. My only concern is if the electronics in the receiver are not good enough to ensure a very good sounding 2-channel experience. The Marantz 8801/8802 are both supposed to strong in this area. I am spending extra on the amp for the main channels to get better sound quality and wouldn't want it to be lost by using the receiver as the preamp. Any thoughts on this?

I've heard your concern expressed before, and the only thing I can say is, it isn't true in my experience. I now use an older B&K AVR 507 receiver and a separate 2-channel amp, and did the same in the past with an older and much more modest Denon AVR.

I haven't heard a system with the Marantz 8801/02 preamp/processors, but I have heard other very good systems with dedicated 2-channel preamps or multi-channel preamp/processors. I really don't think paying extra for them delivers an audible increase in sound quality.

In the case of B&K, a now defunct high-priced and high-quality American receiver, preamp, & amp maker, they readily admitted their AV receivers contained identical preamp sections as their more expensive multi-channel preamp/processor did. It didn't make financial sense to purchase & stock all those extra parts. I don't know what Marantz does, but I wonder if the same doesn't apply to them. Certainly the same economy of scale pressures will apply to them. It is possible that the Marantz AVRs and preamp/processors use many of the same parts, and that Marantz charges more for the preamp/processors only because the audio market for them is smaller and seems to tolerate the higher price.

 

[TLS Guy]

Using the AV receiver as both preamp for the main 2-channel AND as the amp for the center and surrounds is an interesting option. My only concern is if the electronics in the receiver are not good enough to ensure a very good sounding 2-channel experience. The Marantz 8801/8802 are both supposed to strong in this area. I am spending extra on the amp for the main channels to get better sound quality and wouldn't want it to be lost by using the receiver as the preamp. Any thoughts on this?

The fact is that you have to pretty much work on making a preamp sound bad.

I can tell you that stock $0.5 opamp chips, work flawlessly basically.

Depending on your speakers, you might be better off putting extra cash into speakers.

Speakers pretty much determine the sound of your rig, plus the room. In almost every instance the quality of the speakers is so far below the quality of the rest of the rig, even a poor preamp would be hard to spot.

 

[highfigh]

I've heard your concern expressed before, and the only thing I can say is, it isn't true in my experience. I now use an older B&K AVR 507 receiver and a separate 2-channel amp, and did the same in the past with an older and much more modest Denon AVR.

I haven't heard a system with the Marantz 8801/02 preamp/processors, but I have heard other very good systems with dedicated 2-channel preamps or multi-channel preamp/processors. I really don't think paying extra for them delivers an audible increase in sound quality.

In the case of B&K, a now defunct high-priced and high-quality American receiver, preamp, & amp maker, they readily admitted their AV receivers contained identical preamp sections as their more expensive multi-channel preamp/processor did. It didn't make financial sense to purchase & stock all those extra parts. I don't know what Marantz does, but I wonder if the same doesn't apply to them. Certainly the same economy of scale pressures will apply to them. It is possible that the Marantz AVRs and preamp/processors use many of the same parts, and that Marantz charges more for the preamp/processors only because the audio market for them is smaller and seems to tolerate the higher price.

FWIW- ATI bought the B&K name and all of the documentation, so info for B&K hasn't disappeared.

 

[PENG]

Using the AV receiver as both preamp for the main 2-channel AND as the amp for the center and surrounds is an interesting option. My only concern is if the electronics in the receiver are not good enough to ensure a very good sounding 2-channel experience. The Marantz 8801/8802 are both supposed to strong in this area. I am spending extra on the amp for the main channels to get better sound quality and wouldn't want it to be lost by using the receiver as the preamp. Any thoughts on this?

There are always people who think the Marantz AV8801/8802 and 8803 when it arrives in 2017 will sound better when matched with expensive amps. I have the 8801 and two channel preamps and found they don't sound audibly better than even my old Denon AVR. I find what limits sound quality in my setups are the speakers, the source media (quality of the mastering/recording), the room, the media player, the power amp and then the preamp, roughly in that order. So I repeat, at the 3K price point, amps won't be your problem, focus on speakers, room acoustics, and quality of the source media for best possible sound quality.

 

[Jayman88]

Guys, this is all good feedback. Thanks a lot for sharing your experiences. It has definitely made me start to re-evaluate the options.

Maybe something like a Parasound A21 for the mains and a decent Denon/Marantz with pre-amp is the best combo to achieve what I am looking for.

Any brands/models of AV receivers you would recommend?

What do you think of the Parasound A21 option?

 

[elwaylite]

I'm real happy with my 7500 and 7702.

 

[Swerd]

Guys, this is all good feedback. Thanks a lot for sharing your experiences. It has definitely made me start to re-evaluate the options.

Maybe something like a Parasound A21 for the mains and a decent Denon/Marantz with pre-amp is the best combo to achieve what I am looking for.

Any brands/models of AV receivers you would recommend?

What do you think of the Parasound A21 option?

The A21 is a very good amplifier, but it doesn't come cheap. You can find used A21s if you look. ATI is another option that others have already mentioned. The AT2002 or AT3002 might be in the same power range as the A21. See Classic Audio Parts for ATI prices http://www.classicaudioparts.com/index.php/amplifiers.html

For a receiver, I'd look for either a Denon or Marantz, with preamp out put RCA jacks for at least the front left & right channels, and rated around 100-125 watt/channel. Consider the Denon AVR-X4000 or X4100W, or the AVR-X3000 or X3100W. http://usa.denon.com/us/product/hometheater

Both Denon & Marantz are owned by the same corporate holding company, so their product lines might avoid directly competing with each other.

 

[little wing]

If two channel sound is a priority, you can look at the Anthem receivers. Check out the MRX510. All of the reviews for the MRX series have raved about the two channel sound (for what reviews are worth) It has pre-outs for an external amp, plus the onborad amp should have pleny of power for the surrounds. Anthems recievers are short on features though, so that is something to keep in mind.

 

[PENG]

Guys, this is all good feedback. Thanks a lot for sharing your experiences. It has definitely made me start to re-evaluate the options.

Maybe something like a Parasound A21 for the mains and a decent Denon/Marantz with pre-amp is the best combo to achieve what I am looking for.

Any brands/models of AV receivers you would recommend?

What do you think of the Parasound A21 option?

If you are serious about using an AVR with power amp, then yes the A21 plus a decent Denon/Marantz or Yamaha can be your best combo. Depending on other factors, the A21 may not even offer audible better to you, but at least you know it most likely has better audio specs and bench test results than any existing AVR.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

My experience and opinion is that you most likely won't hear any improvements among the good brand of amps - ATI vs Parasound vs Anthem vs Bryston vs Classe vs Mark Levinson vs Krell vs McIntosh vs Denon vs Yamaha vs Marantz vs Emotiva, etc.

In Direct mode (bypass any Room Correction & EQ), you most likely won't hear any improvements among all the good brands of Pre-pro or AVR - Anthem vs Denon vs Marantz vs Yamaha vs Rotel vs Emotiva vs McIntosh vs Krell vs Mark Levinson, etc, for 2Ch or Multi-Ch music and movies.

It's not worth stressing over these options.

I believe the biggest difference will be if you like a certain EQ or room correction after you've tried them out. This is the tough part because most people don't have the time or energy to try different components. And everyone may prefer a different kind of EQ and/or room correction.

For example, I don't like to use any Room EQ because I don't hear a significant improvement in any room EQ I've heard.

But I love Audyssey Dynamic EQ (although I bypass Audyssey itself). I just use the Dynamic EQ part.

Others may dislike Dynamic EQ or Audyssey and may prefer ARC, Trinnov, Dirac, etc. Everyone has a difference preference.

But if you don't care for any kind of EQ or room correction or if you just want pure 2Ch sound, then I don't think any of those brands will matter. Just go with whichever you fancy.

I definitely don't think certain brands sound better than others for pure direct 2Ch music (no EQs). I certainly don't think pre-pros sound better than AVR for pure Direct 2Ch music.