Taming sibilance in a PA system.

[KEW]

I went to a church today and was appalled at the poor quality of the sound.
The speakers are large horns which are a bit harsh, but the real problem is the sibilance, and that was further exacerbated by a reverb effect which was dominated by the sibilance. I found it hard to filter out these problems and hear what was being said.
I mentioned it to the reverend (who is a friend), and he said the guy running the soundboard doesn't have experience, but was good to offer to do his best. He suggested I send an email with any suggestions on how to make it better so he could forward it to the sound guy.
I know some of the people here run sound boards and am hoping you can give some good strategies for dealing with this. I don't know what equipment is in play, but the boards cover about 20 sq. ft. so assume it is a reasonably flexible system.
Can you offer some suggestions?
Thanks!

 

[TLS Guy]

I went to a church today and was appalled at the poor quality of the sound.
The speakers are large horns which are a bit harsh, but the real problem is the sibilance, and that was further exacerbated by a reverb effect which was dominated by the sibilance. I found it hard to filter out these problems and hear what was being said.
I mentioned it to the reverend (who is a friend), and he said the guy running the soundboard doesn't have experience, but was good to offer to do his best. He suggested I send an email with any suggestions on how to make it better so he could forward it to the sound guy.
I know some of the people here run sound boards and am hoping you can give some good strategies for dealing with this. I don't know what equipment is in play, but the boards cover about 20 sq. ft. so assume it is a reasonably flexible system.
Can you offer some suggestions?
Thanks!

There is obviously a peak in the 5 to 6 KHz band, a common problem. You need to try and notch this out if possible.

Pros often use de essers on the mics also.

 

[KEW]

Thanks!
Is a de esser a mechanical device like a mic cover? or is it a software/electronic device?
They use hand held mics for what that matters.
I think they probably have the ability to apply a notch filter.

 

[TLS Guy]

Thanks!
Is a de esser a mechanical device like a mic cover? or is it a software/electronic device?
They use hand held mics for what that matters.
I think they probably have the ability to apply a notch filter.

De Essers are electronic devices.

Here are Sweetwater's offerings.

I expect there are some very inferior compression driver horns in the rig that may be hard to deal with.

 

[highfigh]

I would start by looking at the EQ and mixer settings. The board may have adjustment for frequency in the form of Low, Mid and High controls, with another for Mid and High that has a frequency range, possibly between 500Hz and 4KHz for Mid and 2Khz and 10KHz for the High. Usually, these are set far too high and when the expected results don't happen, the boost the level even more. If it has a graphc EQ, look for the typical Happy Face setting.

 

[TLS Guy]

I would start by looking at the EQ and mixer settings. The board may have adjustment for frequency in the form of Low, Mid and High controls, with another for Mid and High that has a frequency range, possibly between 500Hz and 4KHz for Mid and 2Khz and 10KHz for the High. Usually, these are set far too high and when the expected results don't happen, the boost the level even more. If it has a graphc EQ, look for the typical Happy Face setting.

Doing that will likely severely reduce speech intelligibility. What KEW describes are usually very pronounced narrow band peaks in the 5 to 8 K range. A De Esser or parametric EQ is almost always required to tame this problem, or a new set of speakers.

 

[highfigh]

Doing that will likely severely reduce speech intelligibility. What KEW describes are usually very pronounced narrow band peaks in the 5 to 8 K range. A De Esser or parametric EQ is almost always required to tame this problem, or a new set of speakers.

I know the sound of sibilance and what a de-esser is. In light of the comment that the person operating the system, I think EVERYTHING needs to be inspected and set correctly. KEW may be able to understand speech through the system, but many others may not and, having operated PA equipment after someone else went in and had their way with it, I know how wrong the settings can be. I have also attended a lot of shows where the sound guy was clueless and suffered from it, although I always carry hearing protection, so MY ears don't have to be damaged through someone else's lack of knowledge.

I went to see a band and saw who would be behind the board. I shuddered and watched as he feverishly tried to "get his sound". He then started changing the settings of the House equalizer and at that point, I asked if he ever used an RTA. He told me "I just use my ears". Great! Mess up the 31 band/channel House EQ and try to get "his sound"- good luck with that. After the band started playing, he would get up and walk around, listening in different areas, then would make some kind of change. I don't remember hearing a mix that was particularly good when he was involved.

At some point, I told him about some graffiti I had seen- it was E=MC²±3dB and he replied "I have no idea what that means". Ugh.

 

[highfigh]

Thanks!
Is a de esser a mechanical device like a mic cover? or is it a software/electronic device?
They use hand held mics for what that matters.
I think they probably have the ability to apply a notch filter.

If you're referring to a round cloth disc between the vocalist and mic, that's called a 'Pop-stopper', which is a brand name and kind of a generic name for it. It reduces the percussive sounds of B and P, with a bit of help for D, K and a few other letters.

What brand and model of mics? Some are better WRT sibilance.

 

[KEW]

Thanks for the help guys. It may be the case that the source of the problem is as much user error as the gear. Either way, you've laid out some good suggestions.

 

[highfigh]

Thanks for the help guys. It may be the case that the source of the problem is as much user error as the gear. Either way, you've laid out some good suggestions.

It's not easy to associate a number with a sound, so looking at a control that affects 3.5K-15K isn't intuitive. If the sound guy is constantly fiddling with the controls, he may be a bit overwhelmed.

 

[djreef]

If you're referring to a round cloth disc between the vocalist and mic, that's called a 'Pop-stopper', which is a brand name and kind of a generic name for it. It reduces the percussive sounds of B and P, with a bit of help for D, K and a few other letters.

What brand and model of mics? Some are better WRT sibilance.

We always called them the spit racket.

 

[djreef]

It's not easy to associate a number with a sound, so looking at a control that affects 3.5K-15K isn't intuitive. If the sound guy is constantly fiddling with the controls, he may be a bit overwhelmed.

Exactly. Tire guys call this "chasing the round" referring to tire balancing, whereby you begin changing things to correct for thing that you screwed up with the previous change(s).

DJ

 

[highfigh]

We always called them the spit racket.

Gob-stopper?

 

[rojo]

You could take a laptop with REW and a measurement mic to measure the room response, and dial in the eq for them.

Sent from my LG-VS980 using Forum Fiend v1.3.1.

 

[highfigh]

You could take a laptop with REW and a measurement mic to measure the room response, and dial in the eq for them.

Sent from my LG-VS980 using Forum Fiend v1.3.1.

That's great for the FOH, but it could be that the system response is good, but someone jacked the EQ in the vocal channel(s). If the sound guy messed with the FOH EQ, he needs to learn that it's not OK to do that.

 

[KEW]

FOH?

 

[zieglj01]

FOH?

Front of House