Question about DACs is it a big difference between a 24 and a 32bits?

[Ponzio]

u may be right but I doubt any local B&M shop's will let me demo a 3030 out of the goodness of their heart, to see if the ESS chip is better sounding than the Burr-Brown chip in the 3000 ... and I don't blame them.

for my needs (5.1 HT setup) and the improved GUI/YPAO of the 3000 vs. my old RX-V2700, it would be hard to justify purchasing a 3030 based on my speculation that the 3030 was going to sound as good as the Oppo's output since I love my Focal's (LRC) and have no plans whatsoever to replace them and I don't see any features on the 3030 or 3040 that would entice me.

Back to the drawing board ...

 

[PENG]

because of the similar Oppo ESS DAC(s) in it. I hope ur not offended but I would welcome other opinions/input/proof on the matter. I'm just trying to learn.

Even if DACs at the level of TI's (Burr Brown) 1796, 1792, 1795, ESS 9018, 9016 and 9006, the SQ differences are audible to you, you need to be aware that even the RX-A3030 does not have the same ESS DACs as those in the Oppo BDP-105. The 105 has the flag ship 9018, the 3030 has the 9016 and 9006 that are equivalent to the 1795 and 1791 found in some Denon and Marantz AVRs.

 

[Ponzio]

yes I was aware of the differences but I assumed they would still sound better than the Burr-Brown chip(s).

 

[PENG]

yes I was aware of the differences but I assumed they would still sound better than the Burr-Brown chip(s).

Understood, DAC chips don't cost much (ask Google) and I wish they all use flag shop ones but they don't for various reasons. I have quite a few equipment that uses different DACs and I know the sound differences are subtle if audible (not audible in a blind test for sure). Even then the subtle differences are most likely a result of the whole scheme that involves other components external to the DAC chip itself.

One would logically assume and equipment that has flag ship model DACs in it would also have better design and associated components overall, but that does not seem to be the case. I have seen expensive gear that don't use top grade DAC and lower end gear that do.

 

[Irvrobinson]

don't be shy Irv, tell me how u really feel.

so I'm delusional, as usual? oh well.

As some here know, I am one of the people who think there can be audible differences between electronic products, especially analog ones. I always listen before I buy, or at least before I lost the option to send it back. The problem is, Ponzio, as others have pointed out, that even if there are measurable differences betweens between the Oppo and Yamaha you don't know that the difference is due to the DACs. And, I wasn't kidding, one of those units could be defective. It happens. Bad caps are a plague these days. If you really and truly hear a night and day difference I'd take them both to a shop and have them bench tested. Of course, brace yourself for them both checking out fine.

 

[Ponzio]

As some here know, I am one of the people who think there can be audible differences between electronic products, especially analog ones. I always listen before I buy, or at least before I lost the option to send it back. The problem is, Ponzio, as others have pointed out, that even if there are measurable differences betweens between the Oppo and Yamaha you don't know that the difference is due to the DACs. And, I wasn't kidding, one of those units could be defective. It happens. Bad caps are a plague these days. If you really and truly hear a night and day difference I'd take them both to a shop and have them bench tested. Of course, brace yourself for them both checking out fine.

thanks for the response Irv. let me get this out of the way first. It is not a night & day difference, not by any stretch. the Yamaha 3000 is more than acceptable and then some. its just that the Oppo just sounds better to me, a bit more revealing in the highs and the soundstage is slightly fuller. they're small incremental changes but audible to me and my wife, whose ears are a bit more virginal than mine, nonetheless. I also conducted a test using a standard music CD on an oldish Sony CD player and the Oppo CD drive and got the same result but I discounted it because of the Oppo's newer internal hardware and incorrectly it seems, according to everyone who has responded to my claims, the DAC chip. so it could be, just like some others here have stated, that the Oppo's internal parts are much better than the 3000. if that's the case, great. I have avoided the disappointment I would have felt if I purchased a Yamaha RX-A3030 or 3040. it saves me a bit of green to pursue a better sub for my Salk SongTower's.

I'm not one of those guys who becomes so invested in their equipment that they delude themselves into believing its the best, no matter what the spec's or the vast majority of listener's claim. if I hear a better speaker or amp, I admit it, and if the price is within my means, I'll get the better product. while I may not be on the same plane technically, as some of the other folks here, I've learned quite a bit in the last 4 years and I've become much more discerning in my purchases/upgrades. for that I am eternally grateful to all u guys.

 

[gene]

32 bits is a myth. Johnson Noise (aka. thermal noise) inherent in analog electronics limits your noise floor to about 20-21 bits. So anything beyond that is digital masturbation. What is more important is the quality of the reconstruction filter, the board layouts, and proper implementation so that the DAC will properly handle up to 0dBFS signals. A great 24 bit DAC designed 10 years ago is STILL a great DAC today to playback all of the current formats.

 

[jinjuku]

I learn something new every day. Today it's Johnson noise (queue the Wayne and Garth Snicker).

 

[Bernardo Garcia Barros]

Gene, first of all such a pleasure, im a big fan of your YouTube Channel, and thanks a lot for taking the time to answer this thread, greets from México City.

well sadly I already bought the Marantz UD707 and connect it to my Marantz PM8005 amp, and my speakers a set of PSB Synchrony One..

However im not happy with the sound, I already have some good cables, and in a few weeks some acoustic panels are coming..

what can I do to have more detail and a better sound stage?
Why there is no room correction (Audyssey) for two channels?
Why Audio Companies cant make an extraordinary DAC to be between the player and the amp?
(like sound processors on car audio)

Im also going to need a network player from Marantz not sure if the NA6005 or NA8005.. I think that both are going to be the same as in sound quality.. (Im a bit disapointed at Marantz) however the Marantz website, do not show if maybe the DAC in that one is way better than the one in my Disc Player

 

[gene]

Gene, first of all such a pleasure, im a big fan of your YouTube Channel, and thanks a lot for taking the time to answer this thread, greets from México City.

well sadly I already bought the Marantz UD707 and connect it to my Marantz PM8005 amp, and my speakers a set of PSB Synchrony One..

However im not happy with the sound, I already have some good cables, and in a few weeks some acoustic panels are coming..

what can I do to have more detail and a better sound stage?
Why there is no room correction (Audyssey) for two channels?
Why Audio Companies cant make an extraordinary DAC to be between the player and the amp?
(like sound processors on car audio)

Im also going to need a network player from Marantz not sure if the NA6005 or NA8005.. I think that both are going to be the same as in sound quality.. (Im a bit disapointed at Marantz) however the Marantz website, do not show if maybe the DAC in that one is way better than the one in my Disc Player

You purchased all good equipment. If you're not satisfied with the sound it most likely is NOT a function of poor DAC performance. You either need to work on speaker/seating positioning, or room acoustics, or both.

If your room has hardwood/tile flooring and you have lots of glass in that room with vaulted ceilings, there is where your problem is, NOT the dac.

 

[djreef]

I'm still trying to figure out how PENG buys DACS at a flag shop.

DJ