Baltimore

[Chu Gai]

That's what I've been trying to tell the POTUS.

 

[herbu]

That area of Baltimore has about 50% unemployment and a very high crime rate.

Baltimore has been governed by a single party since 1967.

 

[Chu Gai]

Perhaps the policies and programs that have been in place need to be reexamined. On a tangent, the D.A.R.E. programs can be found in most any community. However the studies I've seen is they have a neglible impact on drugs yet they continue to exist. Because it sounds good?

 

[Swerd]

Baltimore has been governed by a single party since 1967.

If I remember correctly, the last Republican mayor of Baltimore was Spiro Agnew .

 

[Rickster71]

I'm saying that long list of priors is irrelevant.

It does insofar as it shows a pattern of behavior.
Granted if we're playing Perry Mason jr in court it doesn't.

Let me put it this way:
If the police officer had a history of Tazing old ladies, would you post it?
Something tells me you'd also think it was relevant.

 

[KEW]

It does insofar as it shows a pattern of behavior.
Granted if we're playing Perry Mason jr in court it doesn't.

Let me put it this way:
If the police officer had a history of Tazing old ladies, would you post it?
Something tells me you'd also think it was relevant.

So are you saying his death is justified because of his rap sheet?

If he had a history of Tazing (or otherwise assaulting) officers, then yes, that would be relevant in explaining the harsh treatment, though it would still be illegal.

When the people charged with upholding the law are breaking it, I think we have a bigger problem than some punk drug dealer being "put in his place".

 

[Chu Gai]

As it stands now, Kurt, we don't know what his death was due to. AFAIK, an official autopsy report has yet to be released and we don't know if it also involved a forensic coroner's assessment, toxicology, and anything else that would be relevant. What we have are leaks devoid of any context and partial information provided by parties on both sides as well as what appears to be factual reporting. For example...

Attorneys for the Gray family have stated his spine was severed.
Another person who was apprehended and also riding in the van but separated by a metal wall stated he heard thrashing around. Speculation was that Gray was looking to injure himself. Could drugs in his body caused a psychotic behavior?
Gray had recently won a case from an auto insurance company for I believe personal injury but the award was a structured payment. He was looking to convert that into a lump sum.
I haven't seen it confirmed but read that he had recently had spinal surgery. What type, how recently, post operative care, admonitions, I don't know.
There's a lot we don't know and when it's finally pieced together hopefully we'll figure it out.
But there are things I'm pretty certain of. People wound up destroying various parts of their community. Student who were let of school immediately went on the offensive. Change Freddie Gray to a white guy and nothing happens. Media outlets and personalities have and will continue to frame things in a manner consistent with their preferred narrative.

 

[Rickster71]

So are you saying his death is justified because of his rap sheet?

If he had a history of Tazing (or otherwise assaulting) officers, then yes, that would be relevant in explaining the harsh treatment, though it would still be illegal.

When the people charged with upholding the law are breaking it, I think we have a bigger problem than some punk drug dealer being "put in his place".

Hi Kurt, I think you may have misunderstood the context of my post.
Swerd mentioned, the rap sheet didn't matter. I agreed.
However, I noted it demonstrated a pattern of behavior.

Next: I gave a hypothetical about an officer tazing old ladies. (Not Freddie Gray tazing cops)
If I understand your reply correctly?

 

[KEW]

Hi Kurt, I think you may have misunderstood the context of my post.
Swerd mentioned, the rap sheet didn't matter. I agreed.
However, I noted it demonstrated a pattern of behavior.

Next: I gave a hypothetical about an officer tazing old ladies. (Not Freddie Gray tazing cops)
If I understand your reply correctly?

I guess I misread. It sounded like you were saying it did matter because it demonstrated a pattern of behavior.
I understood you were talking about cops tazing old ladies that would be relevant as would Freddy tazing cops, but I didn't see how his rap sheet (as it sits) was relevant to how he should be handled.
Now, it may be that the cops were frustrated because they keep busting this guy and he keeps showing back up on the street. Part of that problem is the cops are required to enforce a "zero tolerance" program in the war on drugs (political decision), while it appears the judicial branch (as does most of America) recognizes the practical realities that there is not enough room to imprison every drug user and the War on Drugs was not effective after 30+(?) years.

 

[Chu Gai]

That presumes that his spinal cord injury was caused by the police which has yet to be determined.

 

[herbu]

If I remember correctly, the last Republican mayor of Baltimore was Spiro Agnew .

In fact, it was Theodore R. McKeldin, (1963-1967). Regardless of who it was, any indictment of current local government policies is inescapably an indictment of that local government monopoly for the last 48 years. Agree?

Regarding Gray's recent spinal surgery, according to the Baltimore Sun, it is just a rumor and is not true. "Jason Downs, an attorney who is with Murphy's firm and represents one of Gray's relatives, said, "We have no information or evidence at this point to indicate that there is a prior pre-existing spinal injury. It's a rumor."
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/bs-md-gray-settlement-20150429-story.html

 

[KEW]

This is one of the true tragedies of modern "news".
"News" agencies are willing to generate BS without feeling any need to fact-check it, then present is as news with the caveat "it's not news, it's political commentary" when someone calls them out on it.
Unfortunately, even though there are pockets of people who discover better (like us, after reading that the real lawsuit involved lead exposure), the vast majority of people buy into the story and the "news" agency successfully distorts truth.

That often puts the burden of fact checking on us.

 

[Chu Gai]

Well said, Kurt.

 

[Swerd]

That presumes that his spinal cord injury was caused by the police which has yet to be determined.

More info has come out about that: http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/relative-calm-on-the-streets-of-baltimore-thursday-morning/2015/04/30/65c67278-ef22-11e4-8666-a1d756d0218e_story.html?hpid=z1

"Investigators believe Freddie Gray suffered serious head injuries while he was in a police transport van, although they have not concluded how the injuries occurred, according to a law enforcement official familiar with the investigation.

One wound occurred when Gray struck his head on a bolt that jutted out in the van, the official said, but that was not Gray’s only head injury. And the injuries overall are consistent with what medical examiners often see in car collisions, the official said."

In fact, it was Theodore R. McKeldin, (1963-1967). Regardless of who it was, any indictment of current local government policies is inescapably an indictment of that local government monopoly for the last 48 years. Agree?

You're right about McKeldin. At the same time, Agnew was the County Executive of Baltimore County, adjacent to the city. McKeldin was previously governor, and Agnew was soon to become governor. It was an example of how Baltimore and the Maryland statehouse were a revolving door for politicians.

Baltimore was once the largest city in Maryland and the economic engine of the state. Since the end of WWII it has been in decline. There once were major steel, automobile, aircraft, and clothing manufacturing in Baltimore, as well as a large commercial harbor. Most if not all the manufacturing is gone, having a major effect on the port's business. As a result, Baltimore's population has declined and little recovery has taken place. It hasn't been a place with much of a future for a long time. I don't think that can be blamed on any one politician or political group. But that never stops politicians from trying to use it for their own advantage.

 

[Steve81]

Speculation was that Gray was looking to injure himself.

Looks like that's getting iffy now too:
http://www.wbaltv.com/news/second-man-in-police-transport-van-speaks-out/32669692

Allen said he did not know a man was already in the van. Gray was on the right side and Allen was loaded on the left side with a divider separating them.

Allen described what he heard: "When I got in the van, I didn't hear nothing. It was a smooth ride. We went straight to the police station. All I heard was a little banging for about four seconds. I just heard little banging, just little banging."

Asked whether he told police whether he heard Gray banging his head against the van, Allen said, "I told homicide that. I don't work for the police. I did not tell the police nothing."

According to the autopsy on Gray, there is no evidence that Gray hit his head against anything on his own. His fatal neck and spinal injury was a kin to the type suffered in a car accident; it needed that amount of force and energy.

 

[rnatalli]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/01/us/freddie-gray-baltimore-death/index.html

Death ruled a homicide and arrest warrants have been issued for six police officers. Now the question becomes which of those six will make a deal in exchange for immunity or reduced sentence.

 

[Chu Gai]

Brief video. Fair amount of cursing so don't play it at work or around kids.

 

[herbu]

I hope that the powerful forces in play with the police in the USA eventually fail, and stop making war on a portion of its citizenry.

In every city I know, the police report to the mayor. The mayor is their top boss. Thus it seems the mayor is the most "powerful force in play" with the police. So I don't see how we can separate the mayor(s) from bad behavior by the police.

 

[shadyJ]

Look how the NYPD treated Bloomberg. Do they report to him, yes, but I have a feeling they are not following his directives to T. Police can have their own agenda separate from their city's elected leadership.

 

[Chu Gai]

Bloomberg is no longer the mayor. NYC is run by Mayor Sharpton, errrr Comrade De Blasio, I mean Mayor De Blasio.