If an 88db speaker can reach thx level at less 70watts rms why does it say recommended 300rms

[mhdaniels31]

Im trying to figure out why a 8ohm tower speaker with an 92db efficiency 225watt rms is recommended to use 225watt amp if less then a 100watt per channel will push it to thx levels at 1watt 1 meter why spend all that extra money for all those extra watts that will never be used even at the dynamic peaks of music shouldnt a 100watt a channel amp be more then enough also I've been very tempted to buy a denon 4520ci at its $1000 price tag brand new full warranty from accessories4less.com wouldnt said amp in the 4520ci be enough to drive my speakers without a seperate amp by the way I do undestand that a receiver is not the same as a stand alone multi channel amplifier but this is denons flagship receiver by the way my 7 speakers are energy veritas 6.2 for fronts 5.2 for center and 5.1 for rears all very efficent 92db 8ohm speakers so whats the point of the speakers asking me for so much rms wattage

 

[elwaylite]

Room and sound level matter a lot. Lot of folks will tell you that you do not need an amp with efficient speakers. Fine,but that doesnt go for everyone. Transients can suck up a lot of power and some speakers have some serious ohm dips in the mid bass range.

I run my Klipsch speakers off a outlaw 200wx5, and to me it sounds better than a 100wx7 AVR at reference volume. "Headroom".

Jim Salk (Speaker guy) has commented on some testing at the Rocky Mtn Audio show were they found transient peaks to be in the 200+ watt range. Now am I saying everyone needs a 200w stand alone amp? No. Depends on what the user wants and has.


If you can crank it and it sounds good to you, then you are fine.

 

[mhdaniels31]

am I really missing something by not having an amp already own a denon 3312ci and was looking for the xt32 that comes with the denon 4520ci but i have 7.1 pre outs on my receiver this is where I was wondering how a speaker that doesnt dip below 4ohms and is efficient can really benefit from an amplifier 70% home theater 30% music wouldnt better processing have more of an effect at least thats what I've read then adding a few more watts that I may not even notice keep in mind this will be my first multi channel amp if I choose to go in that direction was looking at the emotiva xpr-7 and I do listen at pretty high volumes -20 if thats considered loud even with the 3312ci it doesnt seem like any time of circuit limiter is kicking in what does it mean when they say that power will open up a speaker 12x12 room sit 10ft away also trying to experience true sub 20hz audio bought a velodyne 18inch sub and have had to keep it turned pretty low because of bass bloat although I do feel sub sonic bass now its way more like a movie theater would there be a way to fix the bass without xt32 lfc and I do have placement issues if i went with the amp instead

 

[elwaylite]

If I was picking and choosing, XT32 is a great thing, plus if you get a beast amp like the 4520ci would will be fine. If you are listening at -20, thats about 85db (remembering 0.0 with Audyssey is 105db), so I do not think you need to worry about and amp. You can always use the 4520 as a preamp down the road if you want to try an amp.

I regularly run 0.0 db on blu-ray movies, concerts are usually -5 or so.

 

[mhdaniels31]

so how loud is reffrence thx 105db is it 0 that almost seems uncomfortable and I would probably guess that with my little receiver my speakers would start to break up when I'm at the movies it deffinately doesnt seem any louder then at home dont get me wrong going to the local amc with my girlfriend watching a movie recorded in atmos sounds great when I'm there and if thats refrence it doesnt seem any louder then at home is that because its in a stadium theater or is it really the same volume in my small room at home

 

[markw]

What speaker are you talking about? Just because a speaker is rated to be able to handle so many watts doesn't mean it's "recommended".

 

[elwaylite]

so how loud is reffrence thx 105db is it 0 that almost seems uncomfortable and I would probably guess that with my little receiver my speakers would start to break up when I'm at the movies it deffinately doesnt seem any louder then at home dont get me wrong going to the local amc with my girlfriend watching a movie recorded in atmos sounds great when I'm there and if thats refrence it doesnt seem any louder then at home is that because its in a stadium theater or is it really the same volume in my small room at home

A lot of how 0.0 reference volume sounds (Audyssey system, I am not familiar with YPAO and MCACC) depends on the room IMO. I easily watch movies at 0.0, where some say they never get past -10.0. I watch normal HDTV at -10 to -12.

 

[mhdaniels31]

the energy veritas in my earlier post how does reffrence in a theater sound the same as at home when I'm only turning the volume up to -20

 

[elwaylite]

Im not sure about your area, but my theaters all here suck. I can't even eat popcorn without thinking I am disturbing the rest of the people. I think there is a trend where they have intentionally reduced output.

Main reason I spent so much money at home and now just buy the blu-ray.

 

[mhdaniels31]

A lot of how 0.0 reference volume sounds (Audyssey system, I am not familiar with YPAO and MCACC) depends on the room IMO. I easily watch movies at 0.0, where some say they never get past -10.0. I watch normal HDTV at -10 to -12.

s

 

[mhdaniels31]

Im not sure about your area, but my theaters all here suck. I can't even eat popcorn without thinking I am disturbing the rest of the people. I think there is a trend where they have intentionally reduced output.

Main reason I spent so much money at home and now just buy the blu-ray.

I live in miami an there are alot of high grade theaters they all seem to be in compition with each other and have regularly upgraded there theaters to the latest and greatest if your watching a movie at home and its at -0 how big is your room and it says your using klipsch rf7 great speaker by the way there really efficient so that seems like it would be earth shakingly loud to me in my small room at -0 volume am i missing something

 

[markw]

the energy veritas in my earlier post how does reffrence in a theater sound the same as at home when I'm only turning the volume up to -20

There are several speakers in the veritas series and I'm not about to scour this site for any posts beyond this thread.

But, I checked out the V6-2-T and they say it can handle "up to 225 watts" but don't specify a "recommended power" that I can see. My spidey sense tells me that if you fed these, or most likely, any) speaker that amount of power in the low bass region, it'll sound farty. It may survive. but it'll sound pretty bad.

 

[elwaylite]

I live in miami an there are alot of high grade theaters they all seem to be in compition with each other and have regularly upgraded there theaters to the latest and greatest if your watching a movie at home and its at -0 how big is your room and it says your using klipsch rf7 great speaker by the way there really efficient so that seems like it would be earth shakingly loud to me in my small room at -0 volume am i missing something

My room is about 5400 cuft, but at the end of the day the claimed reference level volume is supposed to be at the main listening position. I do see a lot of variance in what folks can and can't listen too. Anyone that watches a movie at my house gets 0.0, and loves it. Havent had anyone complain (at least to my face).

 

[elwaylite]

The other key is crossover setting. If you are crossing all your speakers at 90hz and letting the subs do the work, you need less power vs someone running mains in full range music or movies with a 40hz xover.

 

[mhdaniels31]

There are several speakers in the veritas series and I'm not about to scour this site for any posts beyond this thread.

But, I checked out the V6-2-T and they say it can handle "up to 225 watts" but don't specify a "recommended power" that I can see. My spidey sense tells me that if you fed these, or most likely, any) speaker that amount of power in the low bass region, it'll sound farty. It may survive. but it'll sound pretty bad.

I appreciate you checking yes the back of my 6.2 speaker says 225watts rms 4-8ohm 92db so I get it doesnt take much to drive it I was just trying to understand why it wants 225watts if its so efficient that I would need a seperate amp instead of a top of the line receiver to be able to produce thx 105db if the receiver could produce 100watts a channel acd I get I'll never get 225watts out of a denon 4520ci acd but why would someone with such an efficient speaker need more watts thats what I wanted to know when I blew a tweeter and klipsch warrantied me a new one they told me it was the fault of my receiver not being powerful enough and that I should be using a 200watt rms amp at least

 

[mhdaniels31]

The other key is crossover setting. If you are crossing all your speakers at 90hz and letting the subs do the work, you need less power vs someone running mains in full range music or movies with a 40hz xover.

I crossover at 80hz all my speakers can play well below 60hz authoritively and the fronts can get below 40hz although with my receiver I wouldnt even try it

 

[elwaylite]

You can over power a speaker and under power a speaker. Of course lacking power, mid and low bass, will kill a speaker. I shredded a woofer on a Def Tech speaker years ago, and it was my fault. I had a 90wx7 Denon trying to show off and I pushed it into distortion. Coming from a lot of car stereo in my youth, I knew what I had done.

Part of my reasoning for swapping to Klipsch (started off with smaller towers) is the efficiency, and they would crank just fine. Even with their efficiency, I found a cleaner sound at high volumes with separates, and that was crossing them at 80hz. I'm crossing the 7ii's at 60hz, and may go to 40hz, not sure. That of course needs power, and that is why I have the outlaw. I would start with a 4520ci since they can be had for great deals now, and enjoy XT32. The amp in that thing is pretty stout.

 

[markw]

I appreciate you checking yes the back of my 6.2 speaker says 225watts rms 4-8ohm 92db so I get it doesnt take much to drive it I was just trying to understand why it wants 225watts if its so efficient that I would need a seperate amp instead of a top of the line receiver to be able to produce thx 105db if the receiver could produce 100watts a channel acd I get I'll never get 225watts out of a denon 4520ci acd but why would someone with such an efficient speaker need more watts thats what I wanted to know when I blew a tweeter and klipsch warrantied me a new one they told me it was the fault of my receiver not being powerful enough and that I should be using a 200watt rms amp at least

It doesn't say it "wants" 225 watts. It says it can survive it.

ZRW rated tires don't "want" to be driven at 168 mph. It just says they can handle that speed safely.

Of course, the speaker manufacturer assumes "clean" power, not distorted power, which can destroy speakers. THAT will void a warranty, and they can tell that.

Capisce?

 

[mhdaniels31]

You can over power a speaker and under power a speaker. Of course lacking power, mid and low bass, will kill a speaker. I shredded a woofer on a Def Tech speaker years ago, and it was my fault. I had a 90wx7 Denon trying to show off and I pushed it into distortion. Coming from a lot of car stereo in my youth, I knew what I had done.

Part of my reasoning for swapping to Klipsch (started off with smaller towers) is the efficiency, and they would crank just fine. Even with their efficiency, I found a cleaner sound at high volumes with separates, and that was crossing them at 80hz. I'm crossing the 7ii's at 60hz, and may go to 40hz, not sure. That of course needs power, and that is why I have the outlaw. I would start with a 4520ci since they can be had for great deals now, and enjoy XT32. The amp in that thing is pretty stout.

thats what I believe i'm going to do I feel like I'm getting the marantz 8801 without the xlr and free amps to go with it also a cheap solution would be the emotiva xpa-200 at 150watts x2 that I could afford right away with the denon but I'm not sure if settling on the smaller amp now would lead to buyers remorce later

 

[mhdaniels31]

thanks alot appreciate all the help got to go later