Question about DACs is it a big difference between a 24 and a 32bits?

[Bernardo Garcia Barros]

Guys, in terms of sound quality vs money.. (important the money issue, i could buy a turntable with that)
is it a big difference between a 24 bit DAC and a 32 bit DAC?

here is why?
Im between the Marantz UD5007 ($600 dls) and the UD7007 ($1,200 dls)

Marantz technical support claims that the only difference between those two are the DAC

The UD5007 has a Burr Brown PCM1781
couldnt post the link

The UD7007 has a Burr Brown PCM1795
couldnt post the link

Extras to consider:
I have a Marantz PM8005 integrated stereo amp
My speakers are Polk Audio LSIM703 Bookshelfs
Its mainly for audio, but i choose the blu ray player since i dont want to have 2 different devices for Discs reproduction.

 

[tyhjaarpa]

If the UD5007 has all the outputs you need I would grab that and save the money for other upgrades. I have been really satisfied on mine. I was also between 5007 and 7007.. 7007 had nothing to offer for me to be worth the double price of 5007.

 

[Irvrobinson]

I'd guess you couldn't hear the difference if you tried to hear a difference.

 

[cpp]

bits 24 or 32. The big difference in the actual dac chips https://store.ti.com/Basket.aspx

One supports DSD (1795) the other doesn't. Listen to the two players before you buy.

 

[tyhjaarpa]

bits 24 or 32. The big difference in the actual dac chips https://store.ti.com/Basket.aspx

One supports DSD (1795) the other doesn't. Listen to the two players before you buy.

You would have to do blind test for not being biased about knowing they have different dacs and price tags. And even then you mostlikely can't tell the difference between them.

 

[cpp]

You would have to do blind test for not being biased about knowing they have different dacs and price tags. And even then you mostlikely can't tell the difference between them.

Got that right, a lot of testing with a lot of different types of music. Maybe some of these "Hi Rez junkies could hear it, or maybe my dog

 

[Ponzio]

I'm deaf as a bat but I can definitely hear the difference between the Sabre DAC chip in my Oppo 105 and the Burr-Brown DAC in my Yamaha RX-A3000 AVR.

Does this mean I'm going to start howling at the moon any day now?

 

[Irvrobinson]

I'm deaf as a bat but I can definitely hear the difference between the Sabre DAC chip in my Oppo 105 and the Burr-Brown DAC in my Yamaha RX-A3000 AVR.

Does this mean I'm going to start howling at the moon any day now?

No, but you are almost certainly deluding yourself, or the Yamaha is defective in some way.

 

[Ponzio]

don't be shy Irv, tell me how u really feel.

so I'm delusional, as usual? oh well.

 

[Bernardo Garcia Barros]

well, I recently found the UD707 Brand new in $757 DLS, so i got it..

there is a nice review on YouTube from AV-Land in the Marantz UD7007

in the 2:10 minute, the compare the "sound card" of each of them and there is the triple of circuits, and Marantz said that the 5007 is for movies with good analog audio, and the 7007 is for superb analog audio, maybe is not that much, maybe its not audible for us, maybe my speakers are not good enough for them, but since i got it at that Price, I think its now a good option for the Price..

Now if i do an upgrade, it would be my speakers, or my amp, I know that the Disc Player is the best I can get now for that Price..

however im so pleased for all your comments, at certain point i was convinced on the 5007, but luck and the money difference talked, and I couldnt let that oportunity pass on me..

 

[slipperybidness]

I'm deaf as a bat but I can definitely hear the difference between the Sabre DAC chip in my Oppo 105 and the Burr-Brown DAC in my Yamaha RX-A3000 AVR.

Does this mean I'm going to start howling at the moon any day now?

You can hear a difference, OK.

But, how are you 100% sure that the difference is due to the DACs?

 

[Ponzio]

You can hear a difference, OK.

But, how are you 100% sure that the difference is due to the DACs?

I'm not. All I know is that when I take a flash drive and play it on my Oppo, the files sound better than when I take, said flash drive, and play it thru the Yammy 3000. I'm under the impression that DAC chips processes the file and that some DAC chips do it better than others. Feel free to edumacate me ... that 's why I come here ... it sure isn't for the room service.

 

[rojo]

OP originally asked whether there's a big audible difference in bit depths between the two Marantz units. The bitness is a big factor in determining signal::noise ratio and dynamic range. The 5007 has a SNR of 115dB with a dynamic range of 100dB. When is the last time you've heard content of any sort with 100dB range? You won't hear any difference between the 5007 and 7007.

You could save another $100 by getting the Oppo BDP-103. Heck, sell your Polks, fold in the difference between the Oppo and the UD7007, and you've almost got a pair of Philharmonic MLTL towers or Salk SongTowers. Not that there's anything inherently wrong with your Polks; but if you're looking for noticeable improvement to your sound rather than placebo improvement, a speaker upgrade is the way to do it.

 

[slipperybidness]

I'm not. All I know is that when I take a flash drive and play it on my Oppo, the files sound better than when I take, said flash drive, and play it thru the Yammy 3000. I'm under the impression that DAC chips processes the file and that some DAC chips do it better than others. Feel free to edumacate me ... that 's why I come here ... it sure isn't for the room service.

I would suspect that the Oppo likely has better analog circuits. That is supposed to be the true reason to buy the 105.

It's tough to say, it's the final sound that is important.

It just seemed silly to me that you say "DAC A sounds better than DAC B", and that you could be 100% certain that the DAC is the difference here.

 

[PENG]

OP originally asked whether there's a big audible difference in bit depths between the two Marantz units. The bitness is a big factor in determining signal::noise ratio and dynamic range. The 5007 has a SNR of 115dB with a dynamic range of 100dB. When is the last time you've heard content of any sort with 100dB range? You won't hear any difference between the 5007 and 7007.

You could save another $100 by getting the Oppo BDP-103. Heck, sell your Polks, fold in the difference between the Oppo and the UD7007, and you've almost got a pair of Philharmonic MLTL towers or Salk SongTowers. Not that there's anything inherently wrong with your Polks; but if you're looking for noticeable improvement to your sound rather than placebo improvement, a speaker upgrade is the way to do it.

People are not logical like computers and they don't always think digitally either. If they did they would understand why speakers and their room's acoustic characteristics dominate the sound signature they are hearing. If anyone has seen the raw data and various plots of their speakers in their rooms they would see how bad their frequency response, distortions and everything else are, compared to those produced by DACs, amplifiers and players. You are talking in orders of >10X or much more, yet they worry about the minute difference in specs between their electronics that will almost always get totally lost as the signal enters the speaker terminals.

 

[Alex2507]

Placebologically I like H/K.

Yep, another useless entry.

 

[Ponzio]

I would suspect that the Oppo likely has better analog circuits. That is supposed to be the true reason to buy the 105.

It's tough to say, it's the final sound that is important.

It just seemed silly to me that you say "DAC A sounds better than DAC B", and that you could be 100% certain that the DAC is the difference here.

well I'm a silly guy, I don't dispute that.

so the DAC(s) in the Oppo 105 is not the sole reason for improving the SQ? it's because of the analog circuits or the cumulative combination of the hardware/software/chips in there? if true, u learn something new every day ... thanxs ... seriously.

this nugget of information could end up saving me a bit of cash since I've been hankering to pick up a Yamaha RX-A3030 to replace the 3000 in my main equipment room because of the similar Oppo ESS DAC(s) in it. I hope ur not offended but I would welcome other opinions/input/proof on the matter. I'm just trying to learn.

 

[slipperybidness]

The bottom line, in my opinion, is that DACs are a commodity.

They are mass produced very cheaply and there is no significant difference b/w company A vs. company B. In general, I'm sure there are exceptions, but when we are talking about flagship or near flagship DACs from TI, Cirrus, Analog Devices, Wolfson, etc, etc, there is really no need to even concern yourself with "what company made this DAC chip".

Now, 30 years ago, there may have been significant differences, but not in 2015.

And, different manufacturers may implement DACs differently and have different supporting circuitry, and that is a place where differences in measurements can turn up, and just maybe a difference in the sound.

 

[Ponzio]

well I'm happy I didn't go whole hog on the 3030 and then been bitterly disappointed that it didn't sound as good connected to the Yammy vs. Oppo.

 

[slipperybidness]

well I'm happy I didn't go whole hog on the 3030 and then been bitterly disappointed that it didn't sound as good connected to the Yammy vs. Oppo.

Well, I think you have to judge each for yourself. But, upgrading to a new AVR "for a better DAC" is very unlikely to produce significant (if any) improvement.

And, if you do hear a difference, it's gonna be tough to know if it's the DAC or something else at play there.

I'm at the point in my setup that I'm hitting diminishing returns as far as electronics go. If I'm going to get significant improvements, then I need to start looking at room acoustics. I suspect that most of us that have been on AH for a while are in the same boat.