Using HK MAIN INs connection with Elite receiver

[videopete]

Hi there, I have a Pioneer Elite SC-05 home theater receiver. I wanted to use my HK AVR8000 as the amplifier for the MAINS L+R speakers bypassing the elite's internal amps for L+R only.

I connected the preout MAIN L+R from the elite to the MAIN IN L+R on the HK - it has MAIN INS to allow me to use any of it's internal amplifiers - all the preouts and main ins were jumpered so I removed the two jumpers (one for the MAIN LEFT and one for the MAIN RIGHT to connect the interconnects from the Elite's preouts).
Also connected the main L&R speaker cables to the HK.

When I do this, unfortunately, I get NO SOUND from the HK.

I've tried different inputs (which shouldn't matter as there is no real input since the preouts are going directly to the MAIN INs on the HK, not a specific input but I tried anyway with no luck.

My question is : IS there a special setting I need to set on either the Elite or the HK to activate these main ins working?

I thought that I simply run the wire, hookup the speakers to the external HK amp/receiver and it should work from there. Am I missing something?

Thanks in advance for all your help!!
Pete

 

[markw]

Dunno, but my first instinct would be to check the manual for the Pioneer. Then, if that fails, the manual for the H/K.

 

[slipperybidness]

Your description makes it seem like you hooked it up correctly.

You may consider putting the main/pre jumpers back in on the HK and hook up a source and see if you get any sound that way.

Also, be sure that a "Tape/Loop" or "Tape2" isn't active on the HK.

 

[videopete]

slipperybidness: You may consider putting the main/pre jumpers back in on the HK and hook up a source and see if you get any sound that way.

Yes I tried putting the jumper back in and connected a source and the MAIN F+R played perfectly.

HK setup menu has nothing related to using the MAIN INS.
Pioneer has nothing related to preouts except hook them up and use external amp.

 

[videopete]

Dunno, but my first instinct would be to check the manual for the Pioneer. Then, if that fails, the manual for the H/K.

This I did with no luck. Thanks.

 

[slipperybidness]

This I did with no luck. Thanks.

How about checking your RCA cables? Have you tried those somewhere else to be sure they are working?

If it's not the cables, then it seems like something is wrong with the Pio.

 

[videopete]

How about checking your RCA cables? Have you tried those somewhere else to be sure they are working?

If it's not the cables, then it seems like something is wrong with the Pio.

I tested the cables with the DVD analog audio and they work fine.
The Pio Elite is in MINT condition, almost new, I can't see how the preouts wouldn't work.

 

[KEW]

Do you have a way to make sure the Pioneer is putting out a signal? If you have a set of PC speakers, hook them up to the Pioneers Pre-out and see if they work.

Then, if you have a usb player, ipod, or phone, you can get a cord like below to plug into the HK and see if you can play through the HK (start with volume down on phone/ipod.

Get one of these or simular:

http://www.amazon.com/12ft-3-5mm-Stereo-Splitter-Cable/dp/B0016LFN2C/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1429910368&sr=8-4&keywords=rca+headphone+cable

 

[markw]

I tested the cables with the DVD analog audio and they work fine.
The Pio Elite is in MINT condition, almost new, I can't see how the preouts wouldn't work.

Well, from what we can read here, it sure seems like the problem lies there.

If you have another device that can handle a line level input, even a subwoofer, you might want to try feeding the pre-outs into that.

Might be time to call support.

 

[videopete]

Do you have a way to make sure the Pioneer is putting out a signal? If you have a set of PC speakers, hook them up to the Pioneers Pre-out and see if they work.

Then, if you have a usb player, ipod, or phone, you can get a cord like below to plug into the HK and see if you can play through the HK (start with volume down on phone/ipod.

Get one of these or simular:

http://www.amazon.com/12ft-3-5mm-Stereo-Splitter-Cable/dp/B0016LFN2C/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1429910368&sr=8-4&keywords=rca+headphone+cable

Thanks for this. Rookie mistake. As I was attempting this I realized I put the cables into the MULITCHANNEL out from the Pioneer and not the PRE OUTS - so many connections back there. When I corrected my error, all is working perfectly fine.

Last question, the volume control on the HK is useless when using preouts from the Pioneer, the Pioneer controls everthing correct?

In any case, thanks for all your help!!!

 

[KEW]

No worries! These new AVR's are scary complex! Glad you found the problem.

Last question, the volume control on the HK is useless when using preouts from the Pioneer, the Pioneer controls everthing correct?

In any case, thanks for all your help!!!

Yes, the HK volume control should be dead for any channels you have coming through the Main-In. That would be the standard expectation, anyway.

 

[videopete]

Perfect! Thanks for the quick responses and useful advice. Much appreciated.

I was trying to determine if the HK internal amps would sound better than my internal Pioneer SC-05 ones and therefore hook it up using the main ins. Unfortunately, it's tough for me to tell and test as I have to keep unhooking the speaker wires and go back and forth between the two units and I essentially forget how the first one sounded to make an honest comparison

 

[KEW]

That is exactly what one should expect. The differences in speakers are significant, but between two well designed Amps, if any difference actually exists, it would be far too subtle to detect in such a situation.

The exception to this statement is if the speakers presented a load that one amp could handle, but tested the limits of the other amp. IOW, one of the amps is being stressed. Not a common situation, but it happens.

 

[PENG]

Perfect! Thanks for the quick responses and useful advice. Much appreciated.

I was trying to determine if the HK internal amps would sound better than my internal Pioneer SC-05 ones and therefore hook it up using the main ins. Unfortunately, it's tough for me to tell and test as I have to keep unhooking the speaker wires and go back and forth between the two units and I essentially forget how the first one sounded to make an honest comparison

It took me much longer and much more swapping things in and out to realize good quality amps don't really sound different enough for me to say one is better than the other. Some people thought they heard significantly or even night and day kind of difference when they added an external amp to their AVR but in those cases there could be other factors involved.

If you decided to use the HK permanently after enough experiments, you should re-run MCACC or at least try to manually volume match the main L,R to the other channels.

 

[slipperybidness]

That is exactly what one should expect. The differences in speakers are significant, but between two well designed Amps, if any difference actually exists, it would be far too subtle to detect in such a situation.

The exception to this statement is if the speakers presented a load that one amp could handle, but tested the limits of the other amp. IOW, one of the amps is being stressed. Not a common situation, but it happens.

In his unique situation, I believe his Pio is Class D (they call it D^3 for marketing), and the HK is most likely class AB.

Seems that he still can't say that he hears any difference! Great, gives me more confidence from an unbiased user that Pio got their class D done right!

If there is no improvement to be had, then I would go with the simpler setup.

 

[videopete]

Yes indeed, the Pio is Class D and the HK is class AB.
My thought process was that the HK boasts 85dB instantaneous power in reserve (high current) and I cannot find any such spec for the SC-05. If anyone would have this information, please share but sonically they sound very similar.

 

[slipperybidness]

Yes indeed, the Pio is Class D and the HK is class AB.
My thought process was that the HK boasts 85dB instantaneous power in reserve (high current) and I cannot find any such spec for the SC-05. If anyone would have this information, please share but sonically they sound very similar.

85dB of instantaneous power????

That sounds pretty dang fishy to me. I think you may be a bit confused or crossed up the specs.

You will rarely see power stated in dB.

85dB of "headroom"? That would make a lot more sense.

But, that also seems like an unrealistic dB of headroom too.

 

[videopete]

sorry I meant high current capabilities of 85 amps. I can't find the Pio SC-05 high current numbers anywhere or is it not high current design?

 

[PENG]

sorry I meant high current capabilities of 85 amps. I can't find the Pio SC-05 high current numbers anywhere or is it not high current design?

That mostly marketing stuff that won't translate into better sound in most cases. If you do the math, the speakers would have to have very low impedance to draw that kind of current. Also, when they say 85A they typically don't tell you for how long, so it could be for a microsecond, but you never know for sure.

 

[slipperybidness]

sorry I meant high current capabilities of 85 amps. I can't find the Pio SC-05 high current numbers anywhere or is it not high current design?

Yeah, for a SS amp, the critical parameters are continuous power rating (some companies don't do this!), and THD + N, and the minimum ohm load that the amp is able to drive.

To a lesser extent, the S/N is a spec to look for, but this is more critical on a pre-amp than an amp.

My gut tells me that you aren't going to hear much, if any difference b/w the Pio and the HK. The only reason that I haven't told you this before is that the Pio is class D and the HK is class AB, so I did not want to bias your opinion before you could check it out for yourself and let us know your thoughts.

I'm not generally a fan of class D for home hi-fi, but I also know that it is mostly just human bias that doesn't follow what I see in the data and measurements and listening. My biggest complaint is that Class D and SMPS usually go hand in hand. And, so far it seems that Pio has done it right! I can't remember if Pio uses SMPS or Linear PS.