Question: can you blow small speakers by using a wire gauge that is too low?

[Tao1]

Greetings!

I was in my local audio store and asked for 10 or 12 gauge speaker wire for my Monoprice 10565 speakers. The clerk said he recommended I only use 14 gauge at most because the low resistance could go too low and I could blow my speakers since they are small.

Can this happen?


I tried to look this up, but I don't have enough info to form an answer yet:

-You can blow a speaker by overheating a coil. I assume this is from too many amperes. Generally a conductor of a given gauge can only handle a certain amp load, but you can increase the power delivery by increasing voltage instead.

-I tried to look up how AV amplifiers deliver power. It is unclear how the combination of voltage X amperage is used to increase volume. It seems that voltage is increased to increase volume in this article prosoundweb(dot)com/article/print/amplifier_power_master_class_not_all_ratings_are_similar

-that article leaves the question that are speakers set at 8ohms resistance rated to run with the additional impedance of the speaker wire?

 

[Speedskater]

Go to another audio store, those guys don't have a clue!
You could use 1 foot long automobile jumper cables and there would not be any problems.

 

[Tao1]

Go to another audio store, those guys don't have a clue!
You could use 1 foot long automobile jumper cables and there would not be any problems.

It is theoretically possible, but I am not sure if it will actually happen. The smaller wires making up the voice coil could short out and over heat if they have too many amps going though them regardless of total wattage.

I am essentially wondering if the real world scenario would actually make an amperage change that actually matters.

 

[zieglj01]

Go by the wire chart
http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm#wiretable

 

[Tao1]

Go by the wire chart

That is more of a boundary for the limits of any given gauge. A lower gauge can give better audio (to some degree). Gene recommends 'lowest gauge possible' since wire is cheap in one of this website's videos. www.audioholics.com/audio-video-cables/speaker-cable-gauge

Also another reviewer did an in-house blind study with one of his colleagues. Could not differentiate between 14 ans 16 gauge, but noticed a difference with 12 gauge. www.thewirecutter.com/reviews/the-best-speaker-cable/

 

[zieglj01]

That is more of a boundary for the limits of any given gauge. A lower gauge can give better audio (to some degree). Gene recommends 'lowest gauge possible' since wire is cheap in one of this website's videos. audioholics(dot)com/audio-video-cables/speaker-cable-gauge

Also another reviewer did an in-house blind study with one of his colleagues. Could not differentiate between 14 ans 16 gauge, but noticed a difference with 12 gauge. thewirecutter(dot)com/reviews/the-best-speaker-cable/

That is your take and the way you may want to look at things - to each their own.
Plus, I do not listen to speaker wires.

 

[Tao1]

That is your take and the way you may want to look at things - to each their own.
Plus, I do not listen to speaker wires.

I do realize that going to a massive gauge can be needless overkill

I may not hear a difference going to 12 gauge, but there is a negligible change in price so: why not?

Mainly, I am curious on a more academic level if the thicker gauges can actually kill smaller speaker sets.

 

[zieglj01]

I do realize that going to a massive gauge can be needless overkill

I may not hear a difference going to 12 gauge, but there is a negligible change in price so: why not?

Mainly, I am curious on a more academic level if the thicker gauges can actually kill smaller speaker sets.

I have owned many speaker sizes and different types of wire and gauges - I could
not, and did not destroy any speaker, till I drove it above its wattage level.

However, I do use 14 awg due to cheap pricing - and if one wants to use 12 awg,
then that is cool - the Monoprice will survive with 12 awg wire, if one does not
abuse the power rating (amp/receiver) to over-drive them.

 

[markw]

It is theoretically possible, but I am not sure if it will actually happen. The smaller wires making up the voice coil could short out and over heat if they have too many amps going though them regardless of total wattage.

I am essentially wondering if the real world scenario would actually make an amperage change that actually matters.

Sorry, I'm calling BS on this one. How could speaker wires cause the voice coil to "short out?

I'd really like some proof to back up your postulation.

 

[Tao1]

Sorry, I'm calling BS on this one. How could speaker wires cause the voice coil to "short out?

I'd really like some proof to back up your postulation.

It is the clerks postulation. After researching, I could not directly rule it out with the information I could find.

Essentially AWG is a standard with how much current (amps) a given wire can handle. If the wires in the coil are much smaller, there could be a point where the system can't handle any more amps but be within its rated wattage.

I do not know the details of speaker construction, and do not know specifics about amplifier output, so I am asking the community if it is possible.

 

[markw]

My take: It's possible, but the gauge of the wire would have nothing to do with the voice coil dying. And, it wouldn't short out. If anything, an over abundance of current would cause it to open like a fuse.

From what you describe, the only safe gauge for speaker wire would be if it were smaller than the voice coil itself and that's simply not a realistic situation.

In short, your postulation doesn't make sense.

For a guy who proudly claims to know nothing about speaker construction or amps, you sure seem willing to try to force a discussion on this issue. Are you sure you aren't simply trolling?

 

[Tao1]

My take: It's possible, but the gauge of the wire would have nothing to do with the voice coil dying. And, it wouldn't short out. If anything, an over abundance of current would cause it to open like a fuse.

From what you describe, the only safe gauge for speaker wire would be if it were smaller than the voice coil itself and that's simply not a realistic situation.

In short, your postulation doesn't make sense.

But, hey, if you want to believe that stereo salesman, feel free. It's your dime, not ours.

I don't really believe him, but in researching I couldn't confirm nor disprove it.

 

[markw]

I don't really believe him, but in researching I couldn't confirm nor disprove it.

So, do your own research instead of asking others to do your work for you, particularly since you don't believe what you were told here by several people.

Report back when you have something to report. Otherwise, discussion ended, troll.

 

[Tao1]

So, do your own research instead of asking others to do your work for you, particularly since you don't believe what you were told here by several people.

Report back when you have something to report. Otherwise, discussion ended, troll.

I am not trying to troll the forums. It is a legitimate question.

I have done my research, and I am at the point of needing to take a class in speaker design which is just not feasible. Therefore I ask the community, since I am sure there are people out there who have collected this kind of info in being an 'audioholic' for years, or have training in electronics.

Naturally I can't take blanket statements as evidence. zieglj01 did have a helpful reply giving me his experience. It would be nice to hear a more technical explanation one way or another, though.

 

[highfigh]

It is the clerks postulation. After researching, I could not directly rule it out with the information I could find.

Essentially AWG is a standard with how much current (amps) a given wire can handle. If the wires in the coil are much smaller, there could be a point where the system can't handle any more amps but be within its rated wattage.

I do not know the details of speaker construction, and do not know specifics about amplifier output, so I am asking the community if it is possible.

'Postulation' is being very nice. Sounds more like he read something about speaker wire and doesn't understand it.

There's not much chance that the speaker wire you use will be smaller than the voice coil winding on your woofer unless you use telephone wire and even then, it's far larger than the voice coil in every tweeter on the market an possibly, every tweeter ever made.

He may have seen voice coil wires and decided that speaker wires are the reason for speaker failures.

He's wrong.

 

[Tao1]

'Postulation' is being very nice. Sounds more like he read something about speaker wire and doesn't understand it.

There's not much chance that the speaker wire you use will be smaller than the voice coil winding on your woofer unless you use telephone wire and even then, it's far larger than the voice coil in every tweeter on the market an possibly, every tweeter ever made.

He may have seen voice coil wires and decided that speaker wires are the reason for speaker failures.

He's wrong.

I guess I should clarify:

When he mentioned it, he said they had a set get blown like that in house when they switched the wire. Could be true, but from my experience helping people with computer problems, they might have attributed it to the wrong cause by not knowing any better, or the story details changed handing it down from person to person. On the other hand I don't know enough to discount him either.

 

[markw]

I guess I should clarify:

When he mentioned it, he said they had a set get blown like that in house when they switched the wire. Could be true, but from my experience helping people with computer problems, they might have attributed it to the wrong cause by not knowing any better, or the story details changed handing it down from person to person. On the other hand I don't know enough to discount him either.

I can confidently say that we do.

Since you keep asking us over and over after many of us have told you the same thing, it's obvious you don't think so.

Perhaps you could get answers that are more suited to your beliefs elsewhere. ...or you simply trolling, like I said before.

 

[Tao1]

I can confidently say that we do.

Since you keep asking us over and over after many of us have told you the same thing, it's obvious you don't think so.

Perhaps you could get answers that are more suited to your beliefs elsewhere. ...or you simply trolling, like I said before.

Your hostility is unneeded.

My 'belief' is gathering fact to find an answer to the question, whatever those facts may be. The whole problem with other myths being perpetuated is people giving arm chair opinions over facts, and other non-concrete rhetoric. This is how new comers to the audio community (or even any technical community) end up being mislead with technical fairly tales, chasing snake oil solutions thinking they are getting a better experience.

Now I was told something by someone who is supposedly an expert to some degree (the store clerk), and also says it is personal experience (at least for the store). At the very least I have to give some respect to the $200 cost of the speakers.

On the other hand, out of all of the replies I have gotten so far, only zieglj01 gave me an answer with something backing up his statement (his experience). All other statement did not give any back up at all to the statements.

Now I am not saying you guys don't know what you are talking about and I respect and appreciate you taking the time to reply. However, blanket statements with little or no backup are as 'useful' as the information the store clerk gave me, let alone not enough to go on to be satisfied with an answer to the question.

I specifically came to this forum after watching Gene and Hugo debunk some audio myths and explain what to look for in speaker cables. I think it is safe to assume that my 'beliefs' (in pursuing fact) are similar to theirs, and are, indeed, welcomed on this forum.

So sticking firm in my beliefs, I hope that there will be more relies with some information backing up their statements, or best case scenario, an engineer breaks down the technical details.

 

[zieglj01]

So sticking firm in my beliefs, I hope that there will be more relies with some information backing up their statements, or best case scenario, an engineer breaks down the technical details.

Do some reading here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speaker_wire

Then buy this
http://www.amazon.com/Dayton-Audio-B652-Bookshelf-Speaker/dp/B002RMPHMU/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1429498070&sr=8-2&keywords=dayton+bookshelf+speaker

Choose your wire of choice

Then play and experiment - do not over-drive the speaker with your amp, and
at the same time do not under power your speakers.

Speaker wire is not a flaming arrow out to destroy - it has a job to do, and that
job is to make an electrical connection between the receiver/amp and speaker.

 

[TLS Guy]

What are you wasting time for on this? The salesman is an idiot.

10 meters of AWG speaker wire will have a resistance of 0.1 ohms and an 18 AWG 0.2 ohms.

So if we have a current of 1 amp though the VC of four ohms with the AWG 18 cable, then going to the 12 AWG cable will increase VC current by 0.024 amps. Lets say the DC resistance of the VC is 3 ohms.

The heat dissipated in the VC with the 18 AWG wire is 3 watts. With the 12 AWG wire it is 3.1 watts. This is a 1% increase in heat dissipation which is totally insignificant.