Re-Ran my Audyssey Set Up on Denon 4311 ... look at this crazy Chart.

bizmord

bizmord

Full Audioholic
Hi all,

So, after moving to a new place that supposedly has better acoustic (carpet all around, more open space, etc)

I am a bit concerned about the EQ it created. See pics below.

As always it made my speakers (Large) but I did change it back to (Small). It also miss-measured my subwoofer distance by making it about 1 foot further that it is.

Anyway ... I am just very curious to hear what you have to say about this chart. I mostly really like the sound. If I get too picky, I would want to turn the high frequencies just a tad lower. Unfortunately can't really do it with Denon 4311.

Surround speakers are smaller bookshelves (Ascend HTM-200se)

Thoughts?

thank you

https://www.dropbox.com/s/sk69a13zdd19iv1/IMG_5364.JPG?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/kg90y2v322dovae/IMG_5365.JPG?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/u3qma0hwm62cmmf/IMG_5366.JPG?dl=0







 

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Last edited:
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
It adjusts the distance of the sub based on what it detects and the issue might be that you may need to adjust the sub's volume as well. Mine says it is about 1 foot further than it is also, but I already have it down to just 40% gain and I'm not lowering it. In my previous room (which is physically identical in layout) it got the distance right but I had the volume at 60% gain. So even in a similar setting, you can get very different results just due to small differences in things in the room or speaker placement. Your current setup clearly has a major room mode judging by that large cut it made. Run it again and you might get different results too.

This time when I ran mine with the latest firmware, it cut my main speakers at 130Hz and the sub was up to 200Hz! Now that's ridiculous, but that's because it felt that was the best way to deal with whatever issues it thinks it found I guess. I ran it 4 times and it gave me roughly the same results this time vs. last time where I got 2 similar results and 2 that were very different.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
The Surround L/R don't look too bad.

The salient question is, how do the speakers sound?

My graphs look pretty decent with Audyssey & Flat, but I still bypass Audyssey L/R and just use Dynamic EQ because I go by what sounds best to me, not what looks best on the graphs. :)
 
bizmord

bizmord

Full Audioholic
Appreciate the info .... overall I am happy with the sound I get. It became a bit more crisp than it was at my old location where Denon made sound a bit too dull to compensate for very poor acoustics.

I don't want to get too crazy with extra software and mics. Just curious if by looking at those charts, you would see some sort of Oh my Gosh kinda indicators.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Hi all,

So, after moving to a new place that supposedly has better acoustic (carpet all around, more open space, etc)

I am a bit concerned about the EQ it created. See pics below.

As always it made my speakers (Large) but I did change it back to (Small). It also miss-measured my subwoofer distance by making it about 1 foot further that it is.

Anyway ... I am just very curious to hear what you have to say about this chart. I mostly really like the sound. If I get too picky, I would want to turn the high frequencies just a tad lower. Unfortunately can't really do it with Denon 4311.

Surround speakers are smaller bookshelves (Ascend HTM-200se)

Thoughts?

thank you

https://www.dropbox.com/s/sk69a13zdd19iv1/IMG_5364.JPG?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/kg90y2v322dovae/IMG_5365.JPG?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/u3qma0hwm62cmmf/IMG_5366.JPG?dl=0



If the sub distance measured is off by 1 foot then it may not be off at all, leave it alone. You should also read the following:

https://audyssey.zendesk.com/entries/20341346-VERY-inacurate-sub-distance-measurement
https://audyssey.zendesk.com/entries/177817-Subwoofer-Distance

You may even find the first one entertaining.
 
H

herbu

Audioholic Samurai
I wouldn't worry about a +/- 1 foot distance. I think it's close enough that your ears can't tell the difference.
I run Audyssey, then use an SPL meter following these instructions:
Go to the test tones in your AVR settings.
Set your master volume to reference, (0dB).
Then this from the Audioholics AV Receiver Set Up Guide:
First, set up your SPL meter. If your SPL meter offers speed, compensation, or range adjustment, use these settings: slow, c-weighted, and a range that encompasses 75dB. Set the tip of the microphone at the point between where your ears would be if you were sitting in the center seat. Aim it up towards your ceiling. Play the test tones through each speaker one at a time, and set the level of each speaker so that it reads approximately 75db on the meter.

After this, tweaks are all personal preference. But at least you know you're starting from "zero".
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
In audio terms your sub is probably 1 foot from where it's actually located.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Professional Theaters set their levels to 85dB.

Most Home installations are set to 75dB.

So I go in between and set my systems to 80dB. ;)
 
bizmord

bizmord

Full Audioholic
you guys know by any chance if Denon 4311 allows to only re run room correction on a subwoofer or only on rear channel? I am happy with my fronts but want to rerun other speakers.

thanks
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
you guys know by any chance if Denon 4311 allows to only re run room correction on a subwoofer or only on rear channel? I am happy with my fronts but want to rerun other speakers.

thanks
No, it is all or none.
 
M

markw

Audioholic Overlord
you know, you CAN tweak the adjustments to your liking if you disagree with how Audyssey set them.
 
M

markw

Audioholic Overlord
I do believe that's covered in your manual. I could be wrong, though. Check it out.
 
T

tcarcio

Audioholic General
the sub or the speakers? how??
You can go into your set up menu after you run Audyssey and adjust things like speaker level, crossover and distance if it is really off. It is fine to do this but if you change the crossover Audyssey does not recommend lowering it just raising it.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
Hi all,

So, after moving to a new place that supposedly has better acoustic (carpet all around, more open space, etc)

I am a bit concerned about the EQ it created. See pics below.

As always it made my speakers (Large) but I did change it back to (Small). It also miss-measured my subwoofer distance by making it about 1 foot further that it is.

Anyway ... I am just very curious to hear what you have to say about this chart. I mostly really like the sound. If I get too picky, I would want to turn the high frequencies just a tad lower. Unfortunately can't really do it with Denon 4311.

Surround speakers are smaller bookshelves (Ascend HTM-200se)

Thoughts?

thank you

https://www.dropbox.com/s/sk69a13zdd19iv1/IMG_5364.JPG?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/kg90y2v322dovae/IMG_5365.JPG?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/u3qma0hwm62cmmf/IMG_5366.JPG?dl=0







What Audyssey has done is actually explainable. It also gives insight into the world of commercial speaker design.

I have not really looked closely at Ascend speakers before, to be honest. I would say their site is more forthcoming than most, and more honest.

Here is the frequency response of the unmodified and modified versions of the speaker you have.



Here is the impedance curve.



What can we see from this? First the speaker is likely not BSC compensated, or at least very inadequately.

The lack of BSC is attempted to be masked by improper tuning of the enclosure to give a peak in the 100 Hz region.

The impedance curve does not show the drop that it should if the speaker were properly BSC compensated.

Now Ascend are quite frank about this to their credit.

[Overall curve is remarkably linear, coming in at an amazing +/- 0.5dB throughout the bandwidth of the speaker. (note, port tube output is not factored into the anechoic response, which will fill in the mild dip in output below 500Hz)]

The reason given for this is linear impedance and easy drive. (Damn receivers again!)

[Linear impedance response for consistent performance regardless of amplification source.]

Other probable reasons for this but not stated would be: -

Driver at that price point not able to handle the power requires to achieve goal spl.

Lower overall spl and a reduction in sensitivity spec.

The other issue despite talk of careful phasing there are significant phase discontinuity issues at crossover which really shows up in the waterfall plot.

In the t version you have this is considerably improved.

High end response is smooth and extended.

So what of Audyssey?

It looks as if you have a room bass peak problem.

Audyssey is attempting to correct the lack of BSC. This is not a good way to do it.

Now we get my biggest complaint about Audyssey, it is correcting the top end to make it flat at the listening position. This should NOT be done and sounds awful.
For me this rules out using Audyssey frequency response correction.

So here you see what a commercial manufacturer is up against and the choices they think they are forced to make.

I highly doubt I would like that speaker. It definitely caters to the pop crowd, where these choices would be less adverse and some like the port thump.

All in all another good reason to learn to design your own speakers!
 
Alex2507

Alex2507

Audioholic Slumlord
I like any excuse imaginable for me not to swap rec'rs in the pursuit of Audyssey.
 
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