keep my vsx-53 bi-wiring or upgrade to emotiva-xpa3 to power CM9s

[andurilnarsil1]

Hi guys,

My question is that simple.

I did some homework already, like reading the article Bi-amping vs Bi-wiring: What's the Difference and is it Audible? So I have a general idea that it's not that cut and dry an answer.

From the article I read, seems like I really would not be missing much by getting rid of bi-wiring my l/r speakers, but as usual I have that nagging feeling I'm "loosing my bi-wiring" effect!!

I'm happy with my sound now mostly from my (cmc2, cm9s), but have read alot of articles where people claim that the cm9s come alive once you give it a healthier amp. My current amp is the pioneer vsx-53 which only pushes like less than half of what the Emotiva-XPA-3 can push. I would keep the vsx-53 to power my rears (cm5s), btw.

Anybody have any thoughts?
Thanks!!
Andy

 

[j_garcia]

Biamping from a receiver is useless. That goes without question and is not the same as actual biamping. If you don't detect strain in your current speakers then an amp won't benefit you. "open up" with a more powerful amp is a misleading statement, really what happens is you can crank them louder before distortion is audible and many attribute that to sounding better.

 

[andurilnarsil1]

Thnx garcia, i guess that is the common consensus.. I'm baby-stepping here. The next step is to truly bi-amp using separate amps. But even then, if I use a dedicated amp per speaker (2x separate amps for the left/right), should I THEN also bi-wire? Or you think letting the passive crossover inside the cm9's do their job is enough?

how can I tell if my speakers are straining? Is there a way to quantify that they are in fact straining?

Thnx for your feedback. My neighbors will enjoy my testing

 

[RichB]

I found bi-amping each of my Salons is beneficial.

Before doing so, I tried an A21 with 1 channel driving a Salon speaker and bi-amped (passively with the crossovers in place).

I brought a friend over to see if he could hear a difference sitting about 5 feet from the speaker. He consistently identified bi-amped. The next day we repeated the test with the other Salon and the same results. We were listening to the Celtic Women tracks in the mid 80 DB range.

If you find it difficult to tell the difference, don't bother.

- Rich

 

[andurilnarsil1]

I found bi-amping each of my Salons is beneficial.

Before doing so, I tried an A21 with 1 channel driving a Salon speaker and bi-amped (passively with the crossovers in place).

I brought a friend over to see if he could hear a difference sitting about 5 feet from the speaker. He consistently identified bi-amped. The next day we repeated the test with the other Salon and the same results. We were listening to the Celtic Women tracks in the mid 80 DB range.

If you find it difficult to tell the difference, don't bother.

- Rich

Thanks Rich, that's a nicely quantified example. I am fairly good at picking up slight differences in sound quality and variations. I will consider bi-amping for the front channels. Since there are plenty of choices I will research for a while and take my time in finding something. Your feedback is appreciated (thumbs up)

 

[j_garcia]

Since a receiver is giving you power for all channels from the same power supply, that's why the benefit is highly mitigated. Separate amps would be a different story IMO. What I mean by strained is, at the levels that you are listening at, does it begin to sound "flat" during busy passages and if you turn it up further, it doesn't seem to get any louder and begins to sound muddier as you turn it up? Is that at a level that you might listen or is it well above where you would listen?

You say you can detect subtle differences, so I'd wager you can hear this occurring as well, and if so, then amps would likely be appropriate. However, I also often just recommend getting a good amp to start with and that may already be sufficient - get enough power on a single channel to achieve your levels easily and you may not need to biamp - but then biamping is still a possibility if you need to

There's a big difference between the Salons and CMs too IMO.

 

[andurilnarsil1]

Since a receiver is giving you power for all channels from the same power supply, that's why the benefit is highly mitigated. Separate amps would be a different story IMO. What I mean by strained is, at the levels that you are listening at, does it begin to sound "flat" during busy passages and if you turn it up further, it doesn't seem to get any louder and begins to sound muddier as you turn it up? Is that at a level that you might listen or is it well above where you would listen?

You say you can detect subtle differences, so I'd wager you can hear this occurring as well, and if so, then amps would likely be appropriate. However, I also often just recommend getting a good amp to start with and that may already be sufficient - get enough power on a single channel to achieve your levels easily and you may not need to biamp - but then biamping is still a possibility if you need to

There's a big difference between the Salons and CMs too IMO.

I gotcha.. Maybe I'll do mono-blocks or separate amp for fronts as I stated earlier.

My impression is that there is a range (with my receiver) that the volume seems to go up smoothly when listening to a source, say maybe between -35 to -15, -10 or so.... But (i say this questioning my own placebo effect slightly) I could swear that after turning it UP past a certain point and I get into the -5 and on range, the volume coming out of the speakers doesn't continue to turn up 'easily' as the previous range.. seems like i have to turn that nob a little more than at a lower volume. My speakers have a descent sensitivity rating (89db) I believe, so I don't think it's the speakers. In other words the volume to db number levels off it seems. Again, placebo, or not, but I can see a better amp driving them a little easier.

Wow, i looked up those Salons ... geez them are some beauties.. haha, makes me wana get a second job for obvious reasons..lol

 

[highfigh]

Thanks Rich, that's a nicely quantified example. I am fairly good at picking up slight differences in sound quality and variations. I will consider bi-amping for the front channels. Since there are plenty of choices I will research for a while and take my time in finding something. Your feedback is appreciated (thumbs up)

That wasn't "quantified", that was subjective.

You didn't provide enough information about the room, how loudly you listen, the type of music or any tone settings for us to comment accurately.

 

[JohnnieB]

I can see a better amp driving them a little easier.

Well, yes, a more capable amp will of course have an easier time pushing the same load.

the volume coming out of the speakers doesn't seem to turn up

It certainly sounds like the Pio is running out of gas. The 110 watts you're Pioneer is putting out isn't going to hurt you're speakers. Think of it as an insurance policy against overdriving them. If the 200 watt rating on the CM9's is continuous, a larger amp such as the XPA-3 is rated almost perfectly for your CM9's. If however that 200 is peak, you would have more than enough power to melt the coils, or pop the tweeter like Jiffy Pop.

I personally, like to have that extra power. I also know that with that power comes the responsibility of knowing when you've pushed your speakers far enough. If you don't possess the ability to hear that speaker start to strain before break up, I wouldn't risk it.

Arm yourself with facts. Get a decibel meter, and see how loud you're actually going with you're current setup. If you can get 95db, that's pretty darn good. 90-95db sustained, is where you start to ruin you're hearing. Once that's gone, it won't matter how big you're amp is.