older powered sub hook up,.........

C

chadnliz

Senior Audioholic
I have a secondary system with a Marantz 7701 pro using the original M&K sat sub system as my front channels. The speakers work well but Subs although powered via plate amps have antiquated naked wire inputs and the sub handles the crossover to the satellites. Since I can establish all crossovers in the head unit I was wondering about terminating the naked wire on one end to use the sub preout on the Marantz. As of now I run mains as Large with no sub, I would like to run mains as small and select subwoofer on in speaker config menu. Can this be done? Will the low level signal to sub be acceptable if wire is Rca terminated at the processor end? Thanks
 
M

markw

Audioholic Overlord
The way you're currently running it is how that sub/sat system was designed to work.

I'm not sure the line-level output from the receiver would be sufficient to drive that subwoofer.
 
WaynePflughaupt

WaynePflughaupt

Audioholic Samurai
As I understand it, all the speaker wires from the receiver were run to the sub, and then additional speaker wire for all the speakers?

If so what you’re proposing won’t work. The sub needs amplifier to drive it – translated, “many watts.” What you get from the receiver’s sub output is only a few volts at best. Not sure exactly what that translates to in watts, but it’s practically nothing, possible not even one watt.

What you need is an outboard amplifier between the receiver and subwoofer.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
What's the model of that subwoofer. I haven't seen an active subwoofer that lacked a line level input.

@BSA

Too my knowledge M&K never made a passive subwoofer (I could be wrong)
 
C

chadnliz

Senior Audioholic
Guys I noted its a powered sub with plate amps I have 2 matched units. They are the sort of trapezoid shaped sealed Subs offered by M&K to mate with the Sat 1 model that feature 2 mid bass drivers and a second cab on top with 2 vertical tweeters.
I appreciate the help and have been doing this for years but after multiple systems from pro logic to ac3 to 7.1 receivers then followed by seperates of multiple flavors from Rotel then to Lexicon, to Integra, Marantz and Anthem I just never ran into this before. The system works well and if it can't be changed its no loss but if I could run Subs on the dedicated channel vs full range fronts and no sub channel it would be fun to see the results. Again to be clear these are powered Subs that have gain dials, lights, plugs into wall....I thought that was clear earlier but unclear after a scan of replies. The sub received a bare wire from a Rotel amp, the sub then distributes signal to satellites to cover proper crossovers. Here is a pickof the M&K Sub Sat 1 combo...I believe thats the proper model name. I just want to terminate the sub with Rca and wire the SATs to the Rotel and properly configure crossovers manually or via Audessey in Marantz 7701.
Thanks as always.....
https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&site=webhp&tbm=isch&source=hp&ei=dB0SVenTBcKbNuaFgfgD&q=m&k+sub+sat+1&oq=m&k+sub+sat+1&gs_l=mobile-gws-hp.3...2206.12785.0.16531.14.14.0.0.0.0.388.2113.4j7j2j1.14.0.msedr...0...1c.1.62.mobile-gws-hp..6.8.1514.0.Yz0jy1IxehY#imgrc=PdZTEki6JMwDsM%3A;ihyyoLA9gnML8M;http%3A%2F%2Fwww.audioheritage.org%2Fvbulletin%2Fattachment.php%3Fattachmentid%3D27086%26stc%3D1%26d%3D1186186708;http%3A%2F%2Fwww.audioheritage.org%2Fvbulletin%2Fshowthread.php%3F17804-M-amp-K-sat-sub-opinions;300;225
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
Guys I noted its a powered sub with plate amps I have 2 matched units. They are the sort of trapezoid shaped sealed Subs offered by M&K to mate with the Sat 1 model that feature 2 mid bass drivers and a second cab on top with 2 vertical tweeters.
I appreciate the help and have been doing this for years but after multiple systems from pro logic to ac3 to 7.1 receivers then followed by seperates of multiple flavors from Rotel then to Lexicon, to Integra, Marantz and Anthem I just never ran into this before. The system works well and if it can't be changed its no loss but if I could run Subs on the dedicated channel vs full range fronts and no sub channel it would be fun to see the results. Again to be clear these are powered Subs that have gain dials, lights, plugs into wall....I thought that was clear earlier but unclear after a scan of replies. The sub received a bare wire from a Rotel amp, the sub then distributes signal to satellites to cover proper crossovers. Here is a pickof the M&K Sub Sat 1 combo...I believe thats the proper model name. I just want to terminate the sub with Rca and wire the SATs to the Rotel and properly configure crossovers manually or via Audessey in Marantz 7701.
Thanks as always.....
https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&site=webhp&tbm=isch&source=hp&ei=dB0SVenTBcKbNuaFgfgD&q=m&k+sub+sat+1&oq=m&k+sub+sat+1&gs_l=mobile-gws-hp.3...2206.12785.0.16531.14.14.0.0.0.0.388.2113.4j7j2j1.14.0.msedr...0...1c.1.62.mobile-gws-hp..6.8.1514.0.Yz0jy1IxehY#imgrc=PdZTEki6JMwDsM%3A;ihyyoLA9gnML8M;http%3A%2F%2Fwww.audioheritage.org%2Fvbulletin%2Fattachment.php%3Fattachmentid%3D27086%26stc%3D1%26d%3D1186186708;http%3A%2F%2Fwww.audioheritage.org%2Fvbulletin%2Fshowthread.php%3F17804-M-amp-K-sat-sub-opinions;300;225
Upload the photo of back of your sub to AH or photobucket and post link. One picture is worth a 1000 words. Since sub is powered that should help things quite a bit, thou I have to agree I never seen powered sub with only speaker level inputs
 
C

chadnliz

Senior Audioholic
To be even clearer then clear lol....the sub says "internally amplified servo subwoofer" it also has model name of "The Volkswoofer" it has bare wire inputs, gain dial, room correction switch, fuse but no Rca. Its just an old sub that was pre 5.1.
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
So... The original 70's Volkswoofer. Not even gen 2. That one had line level inputs.
It's also a servo amp - so forget about replacing amp - it's out the window.
I got your pm, but here on east coast it's 11:15pm and I have no desire to call you right now, sorry. Work, baby, wife etc...

I think to make first get work - you pretty much have to feed it speaker level outputs.
I guess if you AVR is yamaha and have A+B fronts - it might work, otherwise I'm at loss.

Your best bet for dealing with vintage speakers is AudioKarma - they specialize in audio antiques.
 
M

markw

Audioholic Overlord
I just want to terminate the sub with Rca and wire the SATs to the Rotel and properly configure crossovers manually or via Audessey in Marantz 7701.
Thanks as always.....
Well, you asked for opinions and you got some. Give it a go and let us know how it works out.

All it should take is snipping one end off of an interconnect, and one from a dollar store should suffice for a quick test.
 
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Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
You could put an amplifier in between the sub preouts and the high level inputs of the sub, but that would be a waste of resources.
 
SurvivalDad

SurvivalDad

Audioholic Intern
Cuz it's all about that base ... sorry.

-------------------------
SurvivalDad
Father Time!
 
C

chadnliz

Senior Audioholic
Why would I need a amp between sub pre out if I have 2 self amplified powered subs? I have HSU sub, Def Tech in other rooms, I have owned Vandersteen, Velodyne and VMPS units in the past. This pair of subs for most part like any modern sub..in fact being sealed it actually beats some more modern ported flub monsters, its only crutch is no rca inputs. Being sealed it seems more ideal for music than some ported units that while amazing for movies can be hard to mate for music. I have a confusing discovery as 1 had a new plate amp installed with rca yet the other is original. So I'm trying to figure out if sub pre can go into sub with rca then signal out via clamp wire outs to the wire in on sub 2....this seem workable? Thanks
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
The problem is that your sub does not have a line level input, only speaker level.

The line voltage output from your processor can deliver no power only voltage.

The only way you can do this is to modify your sub amp.

The speaker terminals on the sub will have a divider network something like this.



Now the V outs will be connected to a mixer/buffer amp. so the channels can be mixed.

The purpose of this is to attenuate the speaker level to line level and prevent the speaker signals mixing and blowing up your receiver.

Now you need to remove Z1 and Z2. Now you need to find only one, and should use only one Vout.

You then need to carefully mount an RCA jack on the plate amp, and solder one V out connection to it.

This will convert your sub from a speaker level to a line level sub and it will work from and LFE out.

If you don't feel competent to do this, then you will have to place a power amp between the LFE out and your sub and continue using your speaker level inputs.

As mods go, this would be very easy if you have the skill set and tools.
 
C

chadnliz

Senior Audioholic
Thanks for the help, the Marantz has 2 sub outs so I sent 1 to rca on the upgraded sub then sub 2 out to sixth and unused channel on my HT amp then wire to input of other amp on rear of sub...then calibrated it all and it sounds great. I also added DSX wide channels and a small 2 channel amp and really like the upgrade...as this rooms system is on the long wall the 24 foot wide front sound field is a pretty impressive improvement, I guess this is now a 5.2.2 set up. My main room is 7.2 typical short wall set up in a 13x24 room so 2 different approaches with unique benefits. Getting spoiled with the living room system because of the Samsung 8500 plasma quality, main room is projector but just bigger not better lol. Old Sony VPL 100 can't touch the 8500. Cheers
 
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