Snake Oil Stuff or not...???

[jeff1952]

I came across Audioholics while researching speaker wire for my new equipment. I read some articles and watched some videos on the web site about selecting speaker wire, which helped me make some tentative selections on gauge and length of wire. When I ran it by the salesperson who helped me make my equipment selection he said some things which I was a little leery of. I don't know hardly anything about speaker wire and how it pertains to fidelity, but I do know some basic things about electricity: voltage, current and resistance.

I would appreciate some help in determining if the salesperson who helped me with my equipment purchase is trying to sell me some "snake oil" as it pertains speaker wire. Like I said, I don't know much and he may well know what he is talking about, so go easy on me for my ignorance.

This is his response to my selection of a 10AWG (stranded), 10 ft length of cable for my 8 ohm speakers:

"Truth...gauge doesn't matter. A smaller wire, done correctly, will sound better that a heavier gauge done poorly. And 14g can be run almost 1000 feet without significant loss. More critical is HOW the wire is pulled, and then there is the other, not so obvious issue, that a long wire, electrically speaking is an antenna, subject to RF and EMI(electromagnetic interference) both of which create noise in a system
We believe in the Transparent audio scheme of using a "network" to absorb these frequencies, and never allow them into the signal. Too, the network absorbs back EMF(electromotive force) and dissipates it as heat, allowing the amplifier to see a cosnsitant impedence...sort of like running downhill all the time."


By the way, my new equipment for my home theater consist of a Integra DTR 40.6 Receiver, a pair of Triton Two Towers and a SuperCenter XL, which are alll Golden Ear Products.

Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[markw]

That guy has one of the worst cases of verbal diarrhea I've ever seen. That statement about running 1000 feet is beyond comprehension.

 

[Cos]

I have a GE setup, I had regular 12G Monster Speaker wire. I picked up some bulk Kimber Kable's 8PR to dress up my system. I drive it with a DHC 80.3 Pre Pro and Halo A21/A51 Amps and I can say, without question, I can NOT tell a difference in sonic quality with about 10ft of Speaker cable between the two. I did not expect to hear a difference and I was right, but the Kimber Kable sure do look Pretty!!

 

[djreef]

Ya, the dude is pretty much full of crap . Just get your wire online.

Mtrycrafts? Where are you? Maybe you and I should go pay this "sales guy" a visit. We could tag team him with logic like we did those idgits on the old Audioreview site back in the mid 90's .

DJ

 

[jeff1952]

That guy has one of the worst cases of verbal diarrhea I've ever seen. That statement about running 1000 feet is beyond comprehension.

So, what's with the ...Transparent audio scheme of using a "network" to absorb these frequencies.......interesting choice of the word "scheme". i did find a transparent cable name. I wonder if that's the brand they push.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm

 

[gene]

I came across Audioholics while researching speaker wire for my new equipment. I read some articles and watched some videos on the web site about selecting speaker wire, which helped me make some tentative selections on gauge and length of wire. When I ran it by the salesperson who helped me make my equipment selection he said some things which I was a little leery of. I don't know hardly anything about speaker wire and how it pertains to fidelity, but I do know some basic things about electricity: voltage, current and resistance.

I would appreciate some help in determining if the salesperson who helped me with my equipment purchase is trying to sell me some "snake oil" as it pertains speaker wire. Like I said, I don't know much and he may well know what he is talking about, so go easy on me for my ignorance.

This is his response to my selection of a 10AWG (stranded), 10 ft length of cable for my 8 ohm speakers:

"Truth...gauge doesn't matter. A smaller wire, done correctly, will sound better that a heavier gauge done poorly. And 14g can be run almost 1000 feet without significant loss. More critical is HOW the wire is pulled, and then there is the other, not so obvious issue, that a long wire, electrically speaking is an antenna, subject to RF and EMI(electromagnetic interference) both of which create noise in a system
We believe in the Transparent audio scheme of using a "network" to absorb these frequencies, and never allow them into the signal. Too, the network absorbs back EMF(electromotive force) and dissipates it as heat, allowing the amplifier to see a cosnsitant impedence...sort of like running downhill all the time."


By the way, my new equipment for my home theater consist of a Integra DTR 40.6 Receiver, a pair of Triton Two Towers and a SuperCenter XL, which are alll Golden Ear Products.

Thanks in advance for your help.

This will tell you a lot about the Transparent Cable brand:
http://www.audioholics.com/audio-video-cables/debunking-the-myth-of-speaker-cable-resonance

This is a useful guide about cable gauge and losses:
http://www.audioholics.com/audio-video-cables/speaker-cable-gauge

That salesman is giving you some bad advises.

 

[tyhjaarpa]

Just get your regular 10awg wire and you are all set while saving a lot of money in progress.

Roger Russell Wire article is worth to read, linked by BoredSysAdmin.

 

[markw]

One thing I forgot to sat in my first post: 10 gauge is more than a bit of overkill for that length.

 

[3db]

To the OP.

I'm glad your spidey sense was tinglining when the sales person began is one person rant on wire. Its definately snake oil as you posted. Good job for catching it .

Speaker cables and interconnects have the highest mark up of anything being sold in audio. To the sales people, its free money. That's why they push cables and interconnects so much. Its outright fraud in my books. Its too bad this pracise is allowed to continue unchecked by law.

 

[jeff1952]

One thing I forgot to sat in my first post: 10 gauge is more than a bit of overkill for that length.

Agreed. Plus it will be a harder to work with when terminating. Thanks for the help.

 

[slipperybidness]

"Truth...gauge doesn't matter. A smaller wire, done correctly, will sound better that a heavier gauge done poorly. And 14g can be run almost 1000 feet without significant loss. More critical is HOW the wire is pulled, and then there is the other, not so obvious issue, that a long wire, electrically speaking is an antenna, subject to RF and EMI(electromagnetic interference) both of which create noise in a system
We believe in the Transparent audio scheme of using a "network" to absorb these frequencies, and never allow them into the signal. Too, the network absorbs back EMF(electromotive force) and dissipates it as heat, allowing the amplifier to see a cosnsitant impedence...sort of like running downhill all the time."

Short Answer: He's trying to sell you snake oil BS! Run!

Let's look at a few comments closer.

Truth...gauge doesn't matter.
LOL! I could b-slap a salesman for saying that to my face! It's a straight up lie! Gauge would be the most important spec to consider. Technically, the DC resistance would be the most important and the bigger the wire the lower the DC resistance.

A smaller wire, done correctly, will sound better that a heavier gauge done poorly.
Sure, if you are sloppy with connecting the large wire, but that's about the only way this makes sense.

that a long wire, electrically speaking is an antenna, subject to RF and EMI(electromagnetic interference) both of which create noise in a system
OK. This is true. But, no need to worry about it unless the problem exists! In other words, don't try to get a solution for a problem that you don't have. In general, this is a LOT LESS LIKELY to be a problem on speaker cables than on signal cables (and often a problem on phono signal cables due to the small phono signal voltage).

We believe in the Transparent audio scheme of using a "network" to absorb these frequencies, and never allow them into the signal. Too, the network absorbs back EMF(electromotive force) and dissipates it as heat, allowing the amplifier to see a cosnsitant impedence...sort of like running downhill all the time."
Man, this sounds fishy to me! Yeah, what he is saying does have some merit to it. But, the way that he is using it sounds pretty dang shady, and perhaps he is kind of mixing up what can happen in reality and what he wants you to hear. More reading on Zoebel Networks and Power Correction Factors for you would be useful here. That would simply help you separate the actual facts of his statement from the actual BS of his statement.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Ya, the dude is pretty much full of crap . Just get your wire online.

Mtrycrafts? Where are you? Maybe you and I should go pay this "sales guy" a visit. We could tag team him with logic like we did those idgits on the old Audioreview site back in the mid 90's .

DJ

Yep, he is full of nonsense. If he is in my neighborhood, I certainly would have a few words.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I came across Audioholics while researching speaker wire for my new equipment. I read some articles and watched some videos on the web site about selecting speaker wire, which helped me make some tentative selections on gauge and length of wire. When I ran it by the salesperson who helped me make my equipment selection he said some things which I was a little leery of. I don't know hardly anything about speaker wire and how it pertains to fidelity, but I do know some basic things about electricity: voltage, current and resistance.

I would appreciate some help in determining if the salesperson who helped me with my equipment purchase is trying to sell me some "snake oil" as it pertains speaker wire. Like I said, I don't know much and he may well know what he is talking about, so go easy on me for my ignorance.

This is his response to my selection of a 10AWG (stranded), 10 ft length of cable for my 8 ohm speakers:

"Truth...gauge doesn't matter. A smaller wire, done correctly, will sound better that a heavier gauge done poorly. And 14g can be run almost 1000 feet without significant loss. More critical is HOW the wire is pulled, and then there is the other, not so obvious issue, that a long wire, electrically speaking is an antenna, subject to RF and EMI(electromagnetic interference) both of which create noise in a system
We believe in the Transparent audio scheme of using a "network" to absorb these frequencies, and never allow them into the signal. Too, the network absorbs back EMF(electromotive force) and dissipates it as heat, allowing the amplifier to see a cosnsitant impedence...sort of like running downhill all the time."


By the way, my new equipment for my home theater consist of a Integra DTR 40.6 Receiver, a pair of Triton Two Towers and a SuperCenter XL, which are alll Golden Ear Products.

Thanks in advance for your help.

If you ever go back and want to have fun with him ask: if what ga he is using. Ask why not 36ga, or 24 ga? Of course it matters.
Ask him what is the resistance of 1000ft of 14ga. Round trip as there are two runs of wire, equivalent to 2000 ft single conductor, it is over 5 Ohms. That certainly matters, a lot. Will be worse than a tube amp and the frequency response will be terrible.
You are not running an antenna, impedance is just not there, so he is way off base, again. Back EMF, what nonsense.
Running down hill?
May be best to find another dealer.

 

[djreef]

O ya, and ask him if you should buy extra footage and coil it up on the floor behind the speaker .

DJ

 

[Swerd]

Ask that salesman what commission he makes when selling a Transparent Audio network, and compare that to the commission he makes from selling other audio products. That's the only "logic" that matters.