Help me pick some new speakers

[the machine]

i have the Denon x5200w and currently am running klipsch F30, RC 62ii, and RS 52ii. Kinda bored with them.

My first set of non HTIB speakers were the Pio AJ's floor, center, and bookshelf. I like the sound of those but the only thing I felt it lacked was a sense of immersion from them, let me explain. It's like I felt the sound was very narrow, not a sound that filled the room. Its probably all in my head, maybe the smaller size compared to the f30 and rc 62ii. But at lower volume I feel like the klipsch fills the room with the sound better.

So on to the room. Its 13x13 with 8ft ceilings, Only 3 walls though. The room is open to another room the same size.

So what I'm looking for is a 5.0 setup (have svs sb12-nsd). This is used probably 90/10 TV and movies/music. The speakers MUST be black (or white). The wood grain look just doesn't fit my eye. I also like the look of a multiple driver speaker.

So the speakers I have interest in are

Emptek r55ti
Kef Q900 (or maybe the r series but unlikely due to cost)
SVS prime

I would like to spend something in the range of a 5.0 from the speakers above

Now if someone can make a super convincing arguent to why I should get the next picks over any of the first 3 then maybe I will gradually build my system up and just start with 2.0 and work up

SVS ultra
Revel F12
Focal 836 vw
Aperion verus grand

The latter are out of my price range but I wouldn't mind building over time.

What do you think for mostly movies and TV, but good quality for music is importnat too.

I know this is pretty wide open but if you can help me discount a few of these speakers I can start to really put together what I want.

My personal choices right now would be the Q900, or the r55ti if I had to purchase them today.

 

[the machine]

And yes the Q900 should be on par price wise with some of the others in the second category, but I have a friend who works for an audio store so I can get them for just a bit over cost

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Upgrade fever. You will just keep feeling "bored" until you get a system that costs plenty enough and sound as good to your own ears as speakers that cost $20K.

So just keep what you have. Spend the next 2 years to audition most of the brands available- Revel Salon/Studio, B&W 802/800, KEF Reference, Paradigm Sig, RBH, PSB, a Golden Ear, Def Tech, etc. See what sounds best or same. See the meaning of diminishing returns.

Then save up and buy speakers that cost about $4-5K MSRP, but more like $3K street price. And be happy knowing that you've listened most of the speakers out there and they don't sound any better than your speakers.

 

[bsf]

so you think anything about 5k is a mere waste and not really much better sound quality?

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

First mistake : you overspend on electronics and very much underspend on speakers.
You should definitely go out and audition speakers, but in meanwhile get the Ascend cmt 340se (trial) to help calibrate yourself on how proper speakers should play like

 

[zieglj01]

so you think anything about 5k is a mere waste and not really much better sound quality?

Not really - it is more about overall sound quality and not price.
You can beat them Klipsch speakers

However, do some speaker testing - test out some companies in
your home.

Buy some bookshelf speakers and test out the sonic signature,
find the ones you like - then trade them in for towers if you desire.

I had to move beyond Pioneer and Klipsch - and I did not need to
spend thousands of dollars.

Enjoy the search adventure.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

so you think anything about 5k is a mere waste and not really much better sound quality?

I think it depends on the speakers.

I think some $30K passive speakers aren't significantly better than some $3K passive speakers.

I think some $5K-$7.5K actively bi-amp speakers are better than some $30K passive speakers.

But it is only my opinion.

 

[the machine]

First mistake : you overspend on electronics and very much underspend on speakers.
You should definitely go out and audition speakers, but in meanwhile get the Ascend cmt 340se (trial) to help calibrate yourself on how proper speakers should play like

Do you mean I overspend on electronics due to the 5200? I originally had the 4100, but there was an issue with the airplay and bluetooth connectivity so I brought it back and they let me upgrade to the 5200 which was not available when I purchase the 4100. I only paid slightly over cost for both.

I have looked at the stuff from Ascend. Personally, I do not enjoy the look of those speakers, and they will be used without grills (have a cat who likes to scratch a bit too much). So while it really "shouldn't" matter all that much because looks do not make the sound, it does have a pretty large impact on what speakers I would end up choosing. Salk is supposed to have some amazing sound, but there is a 0% chance I would ever purchase any of their speakers. I just do not like the looks of them.

Any insight into the choices I mentioned? I just ask because I see so many differing opinions of stuff like the Q900. Some people say they wouldn't touch KEF products below the R line. Some people say the Q line is great. I've seen good reviews on the R55ti, but haven't really seen a comparison to the Q900. I know I can demo most of this stuff, but I feel kinda odd just taking an item to demo it and having some of these companies pay shipping both ways. (I work in a shipping oriented business and know what toll it takes on your bottom line) Just looking to get some opinions on the stuff I mentioned to maybe remove a few options and make my search easier.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Yes, 5200 as well as 4100 are too much avr for f30. X2000 would have been plenty. Especially klipsch speakers are very easy to drive

 

[the machine]

Thanks for the input. But I purchased the larger AVR's in order to upgrade to better speakers in the future, hence the search

 

[zieglj01]

Any insight into the choices I mentioned? I just ask because I see so many differing opinions of stuff like the Q900. Some people say they wouldn't touch KEF products below the R line. Some people say the Q line is great. I've seen good reviews on the R55ti, but haven't really seen a comparison to the Q900. I know I can demo most of this stuff, but I feel kinda odd just taking an item to demo it and having some of these companies pay shipping both ways. (I work in a shipping oriented business and know what toll it takes on your bottom line) Just looking to get some opinions on the stuff I mentioned to maybe remove a few options and make my search easier.

No one can tell you that you will not like the sound of certain speakers.

There are no real losers on your original list - audio is subjective and can
get somewhat sensitive do to preference, nit-picking and some bias.

If I was searching from your list - I would look at the Revel and SVS Ultra
and build around them - get the matching center, and go lower budget to
finish with the surrounds.

 

[the machine]

Yeah I know it's very subjective. There's no easy answer to my question because no one can really tell me what I will like and what I will not like.

"I like the Q900, and I commissioned a nearfield monitor based on its 8" Uni-Q. However, if both of those speakers are the same price it's a no brainer. The Revel is just a much better-built speaker. The KEF has more interesting and higher-tech drive units - most $10k speakers are uncompetitive with the Q900 in that regard, but the cabinet is comparatively awful. The finish is much poorer, and it's not as well-designed, either. Basically, KEF seems to have blown the R&D budget designing those awesome drivers, and then had to trim costs everywhere else. That's why the crossover is rudimentary, and the cabinet finish quality is more in line with the $300/pr Infinity Primusthan a Revel."

This is from the avs forum and its posts like this that make me want to get more input from others. Is that quote merely subjective, or is what he says regarding the cabinets true and will it affect the sound quality?

I love the look of the Q900 but if the revel is that much better then I would not want to keep the kef as an option.

 

[slipperybidness]

[QUOTE=" 1) Salk is supposed to have some amazing sound, but there is a 0% chance I would ever purchase any of their speakers. I just do not like the looks of them.

2) "I like the Q900, and I commissioned a nearfield monitor based on its 8" Uni-Q. However, if both of those speakers are the same price it's a no brainer. The Revel is just a much better-built speaker. The KEF has more interesting and higher-tech drive units - most $10k speakers are uncompetitive with the Q900 in that regard, but the cabinet is comparatively awful. The finish is much poorer, and it's not as well-designed, either. Basically, KEF seems to have blown the R&D budget designing those awesome drivers, and then had to trim costs everywhere else. That's why the crossover is rudimentary, and the cabinet finish quality is more in line with the $300/pr Infinity Primusthan a Revel."

[/QUOTE]

1) You do realize that Salk will build you just about any speaker with just about any finish? It's not cheap! But, "don't like the looks of the Salk" is just being silly. Call up Salk and they will almost certainly build you a speaker that you "like the looks of".

2) From what I've read on the KEF and the Uni-Q and the Q series, I think that statement is fairly accurate, but it has a negative spin on it. Sure, KEF blew a significant R&D budget for the Uni-Q driver, and they did that for their HIGH END OFFERINGS! They then took the trickle-down approach to get the Uni-Q into the lower end line. I see nothing wrong with that at all! Sure, the Q900 seems to have some cabinet resonances, and that isn't a surprise at that price point. If you want to avoid that, then you must move up the food chain, be that KEF or a different vendor.

 

[the machine]

So I continue my thoughts and search on this and I have narrowed down my search. I have dropped the SVS ultra, KEF Q900 (will just wait until I can afford the reference line ) Focal, and AA. They are just a bit much for me to spend, and it's likely that I won't be satisfied until I have a 5.0 ultima2 setup, so for now I will try and get the best bang for my buck.

Upon thinking about this further, I remember when I first received my F30's and hooked them up right away and played a few tracks from John Mayer's Paradise Valley album. I was a bit underwhelmed. The AJ Pio's seemed to translate much better for music.

But as I mentioned before, the sound seemed 'narrow' for lack of a better word. Maybe it was just a bit of a smaller sound stage. It felt as if the sound didn't fill the room. With the Klipsch speakers for movies and TV I feel like I'm immersed in the action.

So I am trying to find the best of both worlds, where I feel like there is a room filling sound, but translates better for music (I understand the F30 are not on par with the Reference ii line like my other speakers and may be a bit of why I feel like the musical quality is lacking. I'm also thinking I could sell the F30 and just get a pair of RF82 ii, which are now discounted, and will probably be on sale further from someone in the near future since they are discontinued, but this is kind of a last ditch effort as I would hate to really make a move to another speaker I do not really care for in musical clarity. I haven't totally discounted this option though since I haven't heard them and it might be a good option)

I'm now narrowed down to
EMP Tek R55ti
Revel F12
and SVS Prime.

The only thing I do not care for is the lack of a bi/dipole in the SVS Prime line. I have my rs52 ii wall mounted now and I enjoy the sound these produce for movies and TV. I'm thinking I will try the EMP Tek first seeing as I can return them and the price is much more friendly, then if not in love with them I will go for the F12. I'm not discounting the Primes but I really have the other two choices at the top of my list. (Also can someone tell me the street price of the concerta line, F12 C12 S12.)


I appreciate all the responses thus far as well.