Can your sub take the intro from Live Die Repeat without farting

[KEW]

My issue was vertical driver clatter right at 35 seconds in, above -26.5db ... my Rythmik F15HP balked at it.

That is surprising since my (lessor) E15HP did fine. I am running dual subs, but I had the AVR at -15 so would generally believe I was running each of my subs harder.

Not sure what you mean by vertical driver clatter. Are you just pointing out that the driver is mounted vertical and not horizontal? When I hear the word "clatter", I think of the sound of metal against metal. Is that fair?

Recording your results, try it again with the rumble filter on. Then turn off filter and set damping to high (if it is not already). If it still clatters, try setting the extension to 20Hz then 28Hz.

Record results and email Brian at Rythmik (email is better for keeping track of test condition vs result). Hopefully this will help him understand what is causing the issue. My first thought is the driver is defective/damaged.

I would also check the screws are snug holding the driver to the baffle as well as the ones for the plate amp (make sure you have the right bit so you don't mar the finish of the screws). If you don't do much "wrenching"; just check for snug, as you might can over-tighten. If the screws are loose enough to allow the driver or plate amp to slap against the cabinet, there will be at least a couple of screws that are noticeably loose. I think this is a long shot, but it is too easy to check not to eliminate it up front).

 

[Acoustat]

Well KEW, I snugged all screws around the driver. They all needed a slight torquing
maybe as much as 1.5 hrs on the clock dial twist on the worst. The amp is snug.

Excursion maybe, room rattle maybe thinking it was coming from the driver
but it appeared the foam surround was allowing the cone to touch the metal frame
in an up and down fashion, thus the term vertical clatter. It appeared more up and down
excursion, but I didn't allow this to carry on long enough to get a full circle view of the cone
so it is entirely possible that the cone was hitting the frame left and right also
or I was misinterpreting the room characteristics altogether. I cannot run this test right now
as the disk was a loaner from a friend but should be able to get it back soon.

I ran a 24Hz test tone with no issues. 16Hz test tone though (this is after snugging screws)
About 1:35 into track 5 here
caused the rafters or molding to vibrate, but is a different sound and was localized as was
the initial clatter, localized, and this 16Hz was up near reference level, like -3 or -4db.

I'll update with video if the DVD comes back my way and I can recreate this issue.
Thank you

 

[its phillip]

Sealed subs can and will bottom out if you're trying to reproduce low frequencies at high SPL (of course, some subs are more capable than others). The solution is to build/buy more subs

 

[Acoustat]

Sealed subs can and will bottom out if you're trying to reproduce low frequencies at high SPL (of course, some subs are more capable than others). The solution is to build/buy more subs

Roger that. I don't really think -27 to -25db would be considered high SPL though…
and that was the maximum with audible distortion. Much less with test equipment.
I really have to rerun this per KEWs input but I would not have posted that
if I didn't really think the sub had an issue, so bear with me on this till I can
get back in the driver seat and see how it handles again, then tweak rumble and dampening
and maybe reset to original Audyssey value too.
Edit: don't forget, this is a sub with few miles on it. It's still breaking in and I'm learning the ropes

I sure am interested to know what frequency is recorded here on this intro at the 35 sec mark.
It's not always about numbers, but in this instance, I sure am curious.

 

[KEW]

Sealed subs can and will bottom out if you're trying to reproduce low frequencies at high SPL (of course, some subs are more capable than others). The solution is to build/buy more subs

Agreed, but my sub has the same amp and driver and played it without any issue. The only difference in our subs is the cabinet size. My E15HP is a compact version of the F15HP.
Thus, his should be more capable than mine.

 

[its phillip]

Perhaps his room is larger than yours? Perhaps he's sitting in a null and losing output at whatever frequency he's measuring? Maybe his MV isn't calibrated to the same level as yours, so he's asking for additional SPL?

Those could all be wrong of course. I dunno what I'm talking about

Also, if he's still talking about Edge of Tomorrow, that opening scene asks for a ton of output at a very low frequency. You can see measurements on the data-bass forums:
http://data-bass.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/304-edge-of-tomorrow-discussion-poll-closed/#entry4433

 

[Acoustat]

actually it's not my positioning or room as I had myself directly in front of the sub
for a visual, and manual volume control. More than likely it's my settings, and or the screws
also, since I did tighten them a tad. I have the movie back, and will shoot a video of it tomorrow.
I typically enjoy movies between -15 and -8db, so no, SPL was not a contributing factor at the -26.5db
setting where this clatter, over extension, or bottoming out possibly occurred.

Thanks for the links Phillip, I cannot access data bass as a non member yet.
Thanks guys

 

[KEW]

It seems like this track is exciting some resonance frequency in his sub. However, any competent sub is designed so there are no resonance frequencies (at least that would sound as clatter).
Perhaps the driver is reaching full extension, but I might expect Rythmik to design some type of limiter into the servo feedback loop to prevent such an issue. But what do I know about servo systems?

 

[Acoustat]

Alrighty then. At the end of the 1st play here in this video you hear a quick
faint tripple clatter (-29db) then I live, die and repeat this process 2 or 3 more times
increasing by 2db each time till I reach -23db. That's enough punishment to get the issue across.
The clatter becomes like 10 times at -27db and 12 times at -25db and 13 times at -23db
As you can tell, the volume is faint with the voices in the news feed within the movie.

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This is with the amp setup as it has been.

Peq = off, bandwidth = mid, freq = 50 Hz, XO = 120
Line In = AVR12
Extension Filtre = 14 Hz
Damping = Low
Replaying this 35 sec. mark results in the clatter as low as -29 to -30db now.
It is in no way room acoustics, positioning (seating or otherwise), increased SPL
or loose fittings within my reach.

I will have to change up the settings tomorrow increasing dampening and rumble filtre
and repeat. What about the extension filtre?

 

[Seth=L]

Yeah, that does not sound like its bottoming out. Something inside the cabinet perhaps that when excited it moves a certain way and is hitting something. That's a very odd sound.

 

[fuzz092888]

I'd contact Rythmik and see what they say. Ask them if they would recommend pulling the driver and running some free air tests.

Off the top of my head, it could be tinsel slap on the inside, or another possiblity is the the glue connecting the cone to the surround has come loose in a spot. I recently had the dustcap on one of my subs come loose in a tiny spot and it made a clicking sound kind of like that. I would also check for air leaks, not only around the sub, but the amp and check the surround to see if you feel any air coming any spots where the cone meets the surround or the edge of the surround.

 

[KEW]

Nicely done video! That should be very useful in helping Rythmik help you!

Listening to your video, this is not a violent tapping, as if the driver is destroying itself. Does the sound of the video when you listen to it fairly reflect the sound you experience? Sometimes vidoe microphones are not teh best at capturing sound (though yours sound good).

As others have said, it really sounds more like it might be something loose like an out of place wire where the cone is coming in contact with it (for instance). It is a "soft" tapping instead of the sound of two objects forcefully striking one another.

If your sub wasn't brand new, I'd suggest pulling the driver or plate amp to look for anything loose in the area of the driver. However, being new, I wouldn't until/unless Rythmik approved it.

If it is going to take time or effort to check the other settings, just go ahead and get the video off to Rythmik. I think that is all they really need to make some good calls as to what is happening and how to proceed.

 

[Acoustat]

Embarrassingly, the lack of thoroughness has come to an end. I moved wires around
and still had the issue thinking maybe the power cord was rattling against the amp.
While leaned over the sub, I felt it rock a little, very little, but I have a slight uneven
floor, and hardwood at that I was unaware of, so a shim of sorts should fix the issue.
I held the front of the sub down while playing this up to -15db and it was what one would expect
from a Rythmik sub. I stand corrected, it handled the intro just fine.

Now to select a shim material.
I like Sorbothane Islate it bumpers and will probably order a 4 pack from Amazon.
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_4_10?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=sorbothane+feet&sprefix=sorbothane,aps,269

It is weight specific and deflects the vibrations off the bulge in the material.
Under or overweighted, and the affects are lessened. This is good stuff.
http://www.sorbothane.com

 

[Seth=L]

Lol, well I'm sure there's a major relief. Good to know its not a faulty speaker, that would have been. More surprising than anything.

 

[Acoustat]

Lol, well I'm sure there's a major relief. Good to know its not a faulty speaker, that would have been. More surprising than anything.

Indeed it would be surprising.
OK enough destroying/jacking this thread
my apologies to the OP, many thanks to those that always try to help.

 

[KEW]

Excellent! Glad you figured it out.

I would never have associated the sound from the video with the cabinet rocking!

-15dB gets kind of exciting doesn't it!

None of us would do anything like talk Accessories4Less into taking a Marantz SR-6001 back as defective and later (after getting the replacement and having the same issue) realize he had the settings adjusted so it would do exactly the thing he returned it for; however, we can kind of see how it might happen with someone else!

Seriously, good that you figured it out before Rythmik replaced it or sent you another driver to swap out. I suspect your sub has been making the sound with every loud kick drum hit, but was being masked by other sounds. It is the continuing "solo" vibration from a passage like this that calls attention to issues that would otherwise not be quickly noticed.

Apologies to the OP, and thanks for pointing us to this great "torture test" to find the weak points in our sub or (in my case) wall-hangings!

Sorbothane is great stuff! I have a Sorbothane mat that goes on top of my turntable that I bought in 1980! Not really sure where it is now. But wonder if they still sell those. It was not cheap, especially for my college work-study paycheck! LOL, not sure if it really did anything for the low loads involved, but I think it did okay at keeping motor vibrations from getting to the stylus.

Glad your sub is "whole"!

 

[Acoustat]

Sorbothane is great stuff! But wonder if they still sell those.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=sorbothane+isolate+it&rh=i:aps,k:sorbothane+isolate+it
or just buy a Bang and Olufsen turntable and forget about it

 

[KEW]

Looks like Deer Hide is the new Sorbothane for turntables!
For the Paleo-Audiophile!
http://www.amazon.com/Deer-Hide-Leather-Turntable-Mat/dp/B00JDWHDSS/ref=sr_1_fkmr2_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1426033863&sr=8-3-fkmr2&keywords=sorbothane+turntable+mat

 

[3db]

Embarrassingly, the lack of thoroughness has come to an end. I moved wires around
and still had the issue thinking maybe the power cord was rattling against the amp.
While leaned over the sub, I felt it rock a little, very little, but I have a slight uneven
floor, and hardwood at that I was unaware of, so a shim of sorts should fix the issue.
I held the front of the sub down while playing this up to -15db and it was what one would expect
from a Rythmik sub. I stand corrected, it handled the intro just fine.

Now to select a shim material.
I like Sorbothane Islate it bumpers and will probably order a 4 pack from Amazon.
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_4_10?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=sorbothane+feet&sprefix=sorbothane,aps,269

It is weight specific and deflects the vibrations off the bulge in the material.
Under or overweighted, and the affects are lessened. This is good stuff.
http://www.sorbothane.com

Excellent. I'm glad its nothing with the sub per say.

 

[djreef]

Embarrassingly, the lack of thoroughness has come to an end. I moved wires around
and still had the issue thinking maybe the power cord was rattling against the amp.
While leaned over the sub, I felt it rock a little, very little, but I have a slight uneven
floor, and hardwood at that I was unaware of, so a shim of sorts should fix the issue.
I held the front of the sub down while playing this up to -15db and it was what one would expect
from a Rythmik sub. I stand corrected, it handled the intro just fine.

Now to select a shim material.
I like Sorbothane Islate it bumpers and will probably order a 4 pack from Amazon.
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_4_10?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=sorbothane+feet&sprefix=sorbothane,aps,269

It is weight specific and deflects the vibrations off the bulge in the material.
Under or overweighted, and the affects are lessened. This is good stuff.
http://www.sorbothane.com

Just be careful, those sorbothane feet squish down a lot, so if you're going to get them only afix them to the actual cabinet NOT to the feet (they'll squish themselves and 'squirt' right off of them).

Hell, I'm wondering if a Home Depot welcome mat would work out even better. Just sit it down on top of one of those. $10 fixed.