Advice on my first major home theater purchase

[rmorman]

Hello,

This is my first post on this forum. I’m looking for advice and this place seemed like a great place to get it.


After saving credit card points for a couple of years, I’ve nearly got enough points. My credit card allows for purchases on Amazon, so this is where I’ll be focusing.


Due to friends/family who have had experience, I’ve been focusing on Denon & Klipsch. Both appear to me to be solid brands and will still allow me to keep within some kind of a budget.


70% of the time this system will be used for movies. The other 25% will be music through the receiver or my iPod.


Right now, I’m looking at the Denon AVR-X5200W (On Amazon)

And

Klipsch RF-62 II Reference Series 7.1 Home Theater System (On Amazon)


I have a few questions

1. What gauge of speaker wire should I be looking at?

2. Different gauges of wire for different speakers?

3. What all parts/fittings will I need? (Cable ends, etc)

4. Specialty tools?

5. Did Klipsch recently come out with a replacement set of speakers that would replace these?

6. Any “sticky” pages on this forum or video links that would help me learn from other people’s experience?

7. Have I made wise decisions in regards to my speakers and head unit?


Let me know if you need any more information as I’m new to this.


Thanks in advance for your help.


Russ

 

[Swerd]

Welcome to AH Russ.

Due to friends/family who have had experience, I’ve been focusing on Denon & Klipsch. Both appear to me to be solid brands and will still allow me to keep within some kind of a budget.

Right now, I’m looking at the Denon AVR-X5200W (On Amazon)

Klipsch RF-62 II Reference Series 7.1 Home Theater System (On Amazon)

I have a few questions

1. What gauge of speaker wire should I be looking at?

2. Different gauges of wire for different speakers?

3. What all parts/fittings will I need? (Cable ends, etc)

4. Specialty tools?

5. Did Klipsch recently come out with a replacement set of speakers that would replace these?

6. Any “sticky” pages on this forum or video links that would help me learn from other people’s experience?

7. Have I made wise decisions in regards to my speakers and head unit?

Your easy questions first:

12 or 14 gauge speaker wire will get the job done for all the speakers. I assume the sub woofer has a built-in amplifier and if so, it requires an interconnect cable with RCA plugs on each end.

You might want banana plugs on the end of the speaker cables. They don't affect the sound but do make attaching and detaching wires more convenient. I like this type http://www.amazon.com/Deadbolt-Banana-12-pair-Sewell-Direct/dp/B006U3O566/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1425671859&sr=1-2&keywords=banana+plugs, but there are many others that also work.

To easily strip the insulation off of 12 or 14 gauge wires, I suggest this http://www.amazon.com/Automatic-Wire-Stripper-with-Cutter/dp/B0002KR95W/ref=pd_sim_sbs_e_1?ie=UTF8&refRID=0HQJAFBX1J5XHVZ5M251.

Your decisions seem alright, but I have two suggestions. First, you have chosen a $2000 Denon receiver. It may be the top of Denon's line, or near it. You might easily get enough performance for your needs with a less expensive, and less powerful Denon AVR. How large is your room? And what are your preferences about loudness, if any?

Second suggestion is about Klipsch speakers. Have you heard them? Klipsch is known for a characteristic "bright" sound. Some people like it and some don't (like me). But you're buying them, not me . Klipsch speakers are also known for high sensitivity, they don't seem to require as much power as others to play loud. This goes back to a less powerful AVR.

Amazon offers bundling these speakers with a Denon AVR-X4000. That might do well, and save you some money. http://www.amazon.com/Klipsch-RF-62II-Home-Theater-SW-310-Denon-AVR-X4000/dp/B00KVPCJ4O/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1425673113&sr=8-2&keywords=denon+klipsch+RF-62

 

[sharkman]

I think you could easily get by with the Denon AVR 4100 unless you have a huge room. As for speakers, I'm not a fan of the Klipsch brand either, on Amazon I'd suggest Polk RTi series, the RTI A7 tower is a good alternative. Just then get the center and bookshelf speakers in that series. Just a thought, you should be able to demo both brands at a big box electronics store.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I think a Denon X4000 would be just fine unless you have a huge room. Then just add an external amp like Emotiva or some used amps.

 

[itschris]

I spend some time listening to Klipsch before you buy. They are not for everyone. They give off a very characteristic sound. I've listened to them at different times thoughout the years and my conclusion is always the same: They tire me out. I can't image spending the day or even an hour or more listening to music with them. They just start to rub on you a bit. Now that being said... I spoke with a guy at a Magnolia store not all that long ago who's owned nothing else. For that sort of money you can EMP or Aperion speakers which sound unbelievable for the cost. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Seth=L]

I think he's alright to go with the Reference series Klipsch, but I wouldn't mess with their lower end stuff. The tweeters have go through significant refinements over the years and while bright I never found them to be fatiguing. They're great for rock, jazz, classic, electronica, etc etc. As an all around speaker they have earned their place in my book. They've proven themselves in many areas and I find them enjoyable for home theater and music.

That said, audition until you're tired of it, don't stick yourself with something when you could have gotten something you'll like better for more or less the same amount of money.

 

[shadyJ]

Unlike some of the others here, I like Klipsch speakers, more specifically the Reference line and above, however their subwoofers are fairly poor performers for the money. I think the system you are getting isn't a fantastic deal for the money for several reasons which I will list:

1. The Denon 5200 will be a killer receiver, however the only reason I would buy it is for Dolby Atmos. I would not buy it for future 4k UHD handling because it does not support HDCP 2.2. If you don't care about Dolby Atmos, and given your choice of speaker systems it appears you don't, I think you could step down to a Denon 4000 without any penalty to the sound. If you care about 4k UHD resolution handling, I would get a temporary cheapie receiver for the time being and wait for the next generation of receivers which should all support HDCP 2.2.

2. As was mentioned before, that Klipsch system come with a subpar subwofer. It would be better to buy everything separately so you could skip the sub and get a real subwoofer. I would be looking at subs from Hsu Research, Reaction Audio, and Rythmik Audio. I would try to get two subs for the best overall sound.

3. If you get a good subwoofer (or better yet two good subs), you don't need full range tower speakers. It's kind of a waste since the tower speakers only real advantage over bookshelf speakers is bass extension, but the subwoofers will be taking over that bass range anyway. I would replace the front left and right speakers with bookshelf speakers, and in the Reference line I would be looking at RB-51s or RB-81s.

4. The Klipsch bipole surrounds are really only designed to do ambient sound. They will not be able to play well defined locational cues due to their design. However more soundtracks are getting into a well-defined surround soundstage, so bipole and dipole designs are pretty much going obsolete. I would go with bookshelf speakers for surround channels. They will be less expensive and higher performing. Within the Klipsch Reference line I would be looking at RB-51s or RB-61s. A very good and inexpensive bookshelf speaker mount for speakers like those would be the Videosecu bookshelf speaker mounts.

 

[rmorman]

Swerd, itschris, Seth=L, sharkman, shadyJ & AcuDefTechGuy

Thanks for the info. I REALLY appreciate your input!

I found this on Amazon for speaker wire:
C&E CNE62270 100-Feet 12AWG Enhanced Loud Oxygen-Free Copper Speaker Wire Cable (100 ft)

I’ll need to figure out how much I’ll need, but that should be semi easy.

Is it safe to assume that this Amazon cable will work for the sub?
Mediabridge ULTRA Series Subwoofer Cable (15 Feet) - Dual Shielded with Gold Plated RCA to RCA Connectors – Black

I added banana plugs to the list. If my counting is correct, I’ll need 4 x per speaker (not including the sub)???

The wire strippers I got. I dabble in some automotive wiring and LOVE those strippers!

I do have a tendency to go over the top. The whole swatting a fly with a tank sort of a thing. I could switch the receiver with a Denon AVR-X4100W. Amazon has that for $1199.00. That would allow for better speakers and staying in budget.

The room measures 24’x14’. While I’m not looking to blow the windows out, at times I’d definitely want to “feel” the music

Comparing the Denon AVR-X5200W with the Denon AVR-X4100W
1. 7 channels vs 9 Channels
2. Stereo RMS Power (watts) 125 vs. 140
3. HD Radio Tuner No vs. Built-in

Will I really be able to tell 125 vs. 140? The only other thing that gives me pause is the lack of the HD tuner.

It seems a majority of folks don’t think highly of the Klipsch speakers. This is EXACTLY the type of info I needed to hear. While I still plan on hearing them at a store, I did some research here and was wondering if you think I’d be happier with Polk Audio? Amazon has these:

Polk Audio RTI A7 Floorstanding Speaker (Single, Black) $499.00 x 2 = $998.00
Polk Audio CSI A6 Center Channel Speaker (Single, Black) $318.37x 1 = $318.37
Polk Audio FXI A6 Surround Speakers (Pair, Black) $499.95 x 2 = $999.90
Polk DSWPRO 660wi 12-inch Wireless-ready Powered Subwoofer $649.00 x 1 = $649.00
Denon AVR-X4100W 7.2 $1,199.00 x 1 = $1,199.00

For a total of $4164.27

Am I correct in assuming that I’ll need 2 x pairs of the Polk Audio FXI A6 for my 7.1?

With the Polk Audio FXI A6 Surround Speakers will I need any speaker mount brackets, like the VideoSecu One Pair of Side Clamping Speaker Mounting Bracket with Tilt and Swivel for Large Surrounding Sound Speakers MS56B 3LH?

Will I need 2 x subs? Should I stick with the Polk Audio sub or look at Hsu Research, Reaction Audio, and/or Rythmik Audio?

Thanks again!
Russ

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Ugg, you went from ok speakers (Klipsch RF) to omg run away (Polk RTi) and even worse Polk sub
125 to 140W difference is nearly none-existing. I never find myself at home want to listed to poor quality HD radio, then you simply could stream from many (including) free internet music stations.

I get it you want to use your CC rewards and shop at amazon, ok. NP.
Here's what I would buy for about 4k for 7.1
avr:
http://www.amazon.com/Denon-AVR-X4000-7-2-Channel-Discontinued-Manufacturer/dp/B00CALM17C/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1425847259&sr=8-1&keywords=denon+x4000
Mains:
2x http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0060IG460/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A2BAFXEEY8Q6L8
center:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00GJYRWK2/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER
surrounds:
2 pairs: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00GK22KYG/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

sub:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00R7PODYU/ref=ox_sc_act_title_4?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=AHF4SYKP09WBH

Total: $4200

P.s: For a bit more - this sub to replace pc2000 - it would be even better:
http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-3mk5HP.html

unfortunately, sold only on Hsu web site

 

[zieglj01]

Speaker choice, preference is up to you - however, my preference
would be the JBL Studio 5 series for the front 3 channels, and the
Studio 2 series for surrounds.

If you need to buy the sub from Amazon - then go with a good SVS
subwoofer.

And yes, Mediabridge subwoofer cable will be fine

 

[Swerd]

Others are tackling the big issue, speaker choice. It can be difficult because personal preference plays a large part. I'll take an easier question .

Your room size is in the normal range, not large or small.

The speaker cable you mentioned from Amazon should be fine for the all the speakers but not the sub woofer.

To hook up a sub woofer to the receiver, you need a cable like this. You'll have to know a length.

 

[shadyJ]

As others have said, there will be no audible difference between 125 watts to 140 watts. As for the Polk speakers, I don't mind the RTi series, but I don't consider them better than Klipsch Reference. Again you are buying tower speakers when you could get by with Bookshelf speakers just as well. Also the Polk sub is just awful. If you must buy your sub from Amazon, go with an SVS sub, something from their 2000 series and above, but a Hsu VTF3 mk5 will cost about as much and offer much higher performance.

I really the recommendation of the JBL 500 Studios. Their bookshelf speakers won't be as powerful as some of the upper end of the Klipsch Reference though. If it were me, and I wanted to blow away friends and family on movie night when that THX promo comes up, I would go with:
2 Klispch RB-81 bookshelf speakers for front left/right.
Klipsch RC-62 center
4 JBL 8320 speakers for surrounds
2 Hsu VTF3 mk5 subwoofers

That should come pretty close to a nice big cinema sound.

 

[rmorman]

OK,

I have been dormant on this for a while. Needed some household goods and have FINALLY built my card points back up again.

Beings where I live there isn't a store within 2 hours where I can listen to good speakers in a home theater room (or much of ANYTHING), I have taken your advice into account and have modified my search away from away from buying a complete Klipsch speaker system. The general consensus was that if I could not go someplace local and hear them that Polk was a safer/better bet. So that is the direction that I went.

Right now I still have nothing as far as a home theater.

While looking online I found this bundle on Amazon:

1. Denon AVRX4400H 9.2 Channel Full 4K Ultra HD Network AV Receiver with HEOS black (x 1)
2. Polk Audio Signature S55 American HiFi Home Theater Tower Speaker (x 2)
3. Polk Audio Signature S20 American HiFi Home Theater Bookshelf Speakers (Pair) (2 x pair)
4. Polk Audio Signature S35 American HiFi Home Theater Slim Center Speaker (x1)
5. Polk Audio 12 Inches 400 Watts Home Theater Subwoofer Black Walnut (HTS SUB 12 BLK WAL) (x 2)

For $2,849.00 & FREE Shipping.

Through Amazon, to buy each individually, it would be $3,529.33. That is a $680 bundle saving.

First off I know that the Polk Subs (HTS 12s) are NOT great (28Hz - 120Hz), but would I know any better without having anything now? The seller also sells the Klipsch Reference R-112SW. Thought about them if, for a slight upcharge, I could upgrade to 1 or 2 of these.

The room is a 14' x 24'
See attached for the setup of the room.

This will be used 75% movies and 25% music.

With your experience

1. What other info can I supply?
2. In your opinion, will I be happy?
3. What accessories should I look for? (Mounting equipment and such)
4. Can I/SHOULD I wall mount the S20s?
5. Do I have to have ceiling speakers to take advantage of Dolby Atmos?
6. Will this Denon be a good head for this setup?
7. What else should I be considering as I have no idea what to expect

Thanks (again) in advance,
Russ

 

[shadyJ]

That setup doesn't look all bad, but I don't see much of a reason to go for two-way tower speakers. The subs probably aren't amazing. The Klipsch subs probably aren't a huge upgrade either. I would be worried about the center speaker as well. That sort of design certainly isn't my favorite. Most of what you are paying for in that package is the receiver, not the speakers or subs. I would skip this Polk Package.

I think you could so much better for the same price with an internet direct package from Hsu Research, Ascend/Rythmik, or the Monoprice Monolith series, even if you have to step down a notch on the AVR.

To answer some of your other questions, you probably would need ceiling speakers to take full advantage of Atmos, but those Atmos module-type speaker can get you some of the effect. But on a budget this tight, don't even worry about Atmos. Just get the fundamentals right to start with.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

For speakers, I'd rather choose between Wharfedale Diamond 10.x system (warmer and more bass) or more accurate Elac Unifi UFx speakers. Both fit your budget.
For sub(s): Pair of SVS PC2000 (new, damaged external box) - https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B0160A86HC/ref=olp_twister_child?ie=UTF8&mv_color_name=1&qid=1513868074&sr=1-11
I'd doublecheck with SVS, but afaik OneCall is authorized reseller and you should get same warranty as new.

 

[rmorman]

Thanks for all the help! I appreciate it!

 

[aschamne]

I would also check out the SVS PB12-NSD https://www.amazon.com/SVS-PB12-NSD-12-inch-Powered-Subwoofer/dp/B009H66M46/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1514108665&sr=1-1-spons&keywords=svs+pb12-nsd&psc=1&smid=A21759W3TJTNCB, they would save you a few hundred dollars over the PC2000, but both are a good solid choice.

 

[rmorman]

LOTS of good advice here! Thanks all!
Tower speakers: If I'm to be honest with myself, I wan't the towers as much for the "look" as I do for the playing of loud music to entertain my only neighbors, the cattle. I just need to decide on the S55s or the 60s.

As far as the sub, I think 1 x of the SVS PB12-NSD is probably what I'll go with based on the advice of folks here.

Surround speakers: Beings they will really only be used for movies, I think the S20s were overkill. As I don't have anybody around here that can showcase them for me, I think I'll go with the S15s. Although, if I could get away with it, I might try the S10s.

While I would really like to take advantage of Atmos, I think I'll hold off on ceiling speakers.

Polk Signature S60 or S55 American HiFi Home Theater Tower Speaker (Pair, Black)
Denon AVRX4400H 9.2 Channel Full 4K Ultra HD Network AV Receiver with HEOS black
Polk Audio Signature S15 American HiFi Home Theater Compact Bookshelf Speaker (2 x Pair)
Polk Audio Signature S30 American HiFi Home Theater Center Speaker
SVS PB12-NSD Black Ash 12-inch 400 Watt Powered Subwoofer

Using dimensions as correct as I can get from the internet, the attached is where I stand now. Not that I can't be convinced to change my mind!

 

[rmorman]

Got back from some Christmas travel and was able to get more measurements as far as windows, doorways, furnace vents & Misc. See attached. Everything should be within an inch of being correct. I'm all in on the S15s. They are 12" tall. One concern. With the window put in, I have about 16" above the bay window. Less if you add in the window trim.


For the side surround speakers:

1. These need to be between 90 to 110 deg of the audience. That should not be a problem
2. Should I change the side speakers to S10s? Will I be giving up a lot?
3. With the height I have to mount the speakers, do I need to aim them "down" towards the audience?
4. If so, what would be the best bracket?
5. Or do I create a 45 deg wooden angle mount?

For the rear surround speakers:

1. They are about 12' from the couch
2. These need to be between 135 to 150 deg of the audience. That should not be a problem with the correct bracketry
3. Should I stay with the S15s due to the distance?
4. With the height I have to mount the speakers, do I need to aim them "down" towards the audience?
5. Due to the space behind the couch being used as an "office" I don't want to use pedestal speaker mounts
6. Same question on the best bracket?
7. Or do I still build a 45 deg wooden angle mount?

Currently, the TV and stand are at a 45 deg angle where I have the shelving pictured in the attached. When I get this system bought, I'm going to move the TV and entertainment center to where it is in this drawing. EVENTUALLY, the plan would be to get rid of the shelving AND the entertainment center in favor of the whole wall being a custom built unit with lots of storage and a place for the TV.


Without doing a sub crawl, considering the sub is spacially correct, where would you suggest I set it? Currently, in between the shelves and sub is a furnace grate I don't want to block off.


Polk Signature S60 or S55 American HiFi Home Theater Tower Speaker (Pair, Black)
Denon AVRX4400H 9.2 Channel Full 4K Ultra HD Network AV Receiver with HEOS black
Polk Audio Signature S15 or S10s American HiFi Home Theater Compact Bookshelf Speaker (2 x Pair)
Polk Audio Signature S30 American HiFi Home Theater Center Speaker
SVS PB12-NSD Black Ash 12-inch 400 Watt Powered Subwoofer

Thanks again!

Russ

 

[Foxrox]

Polk speakers are not generally highly regarded here, except perhaps their flagship LSiM series, depending who you ask.

For that kind of money, you have lots of options. KEF is sold on amazon. You could go 2x q500, 1x q200c, and 4x q100. This brand is well-regarded and should have excellent imaging for HT due to the design. Klipsch RP is also a good choice for HT. All these speakers will sound a bit different because they have different design philosophies. Klipsch speakers are horn-loaded. You should look into what that means and the pros and cons of it.

For the receiver, Denon x4400h is a fine choice, but you can still find x4300h for ~$500 less. That’s last year’s model, but not much changed.

SVS is absolutely a solid choice for your subwoofer. That’s probably your best bet on Amazon. But as others have mentioned, you can get more bang for your buck with internet direct. HSU always seems to be the first recommendation, but there are others: Outlaw, Monoprice, Rythmik, Power Sound Audio, just to name a few.

Good luck!