Organs at the Oscars and broken Imax sound system.

TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
I recently watched the movie Budapest Hotel. I noted a prominent part for a pipe Organ. This really gave my system a good workout.

It turns out the organ was the Father Henry Willis organ of St. Judes on the Hill Hampstead, played by the assistant organist of St Paul's cathedral.



This morning I was in my first level decanting some beef stock to put in the freezer. I was listening to the radio and they played part of the music score from Interstellar. There was a prominent part for the organ.

It turns out that the organ is the Harrison and Harrison instrument in the Church of Knight's Templar. This is an old 12 century Crusader Church at Lincolns in Field where the old Bailey is.



Both the scores for Budapest Hotel and Interstellar have received Oscar nominations.

I understand the loud organ parts totally dwarf the dialog, but the producers say that was their intent.

According to reports in the Telegraph and other papers, this organ part on the sound track has already destroyed an Imax theater sound system, but I can't find out which one. British organs are very powerful beasts and can produce huge power across the whole acoustic spectrum. They easily can destroy all but the most robust speaker systems. This is a BD I will have to get.

As a matter of coincidence I'm attending the wedding of my niece at Temple Church on March 21. She is a barrister and has chambers at Lincoln in Fields. She had to get permission from the Lord Chief Justice to have her wedding in the Temple Church.

As another coincidence Roger Sayer has recently been appointed as organist there. He was formerly organist at Rochester Cathedral and played the organ for my father's funeral two years ago. So he will play for two family events.

Lets see how this mighty instruments fair at the Oscars this weekend.
 
Alex2507

Alex2507

Audioholic Slumlord
My faith must be slipping. Last time I attended mass, I wondered how they would address timing issues for their JBL speakers that lined the walls, not quite as frequently as the stations of the cross.

I've also had a chance to hear the organs at the Catholic cathedral and the First Baptist Church here in Providence. I'm a cheap date. :)
 
TheWarrior

TheWarrior

Audioholic Ninja
So anyone looking to upgrade should get their equipment on their Homeowners Insurance, buy the movie and crank it to 11?!

I remember my days growing up catholic when the new organ came in. Possibly the first time in my life that I started to think about music as opposed to playing outdoors. I was excited by the concept that sound could cause those huge oak pews to vibrate so much. From there I probably spent the rest of mass imagining an organ so large that it would break the church and I could go home, but who's to say...
 
slipperybidness

slipperybidness

Audioholic Warlord
That is a nice link. That seems like a movie that will go to the top of the must have demo movies.

I hope my system is up to it! I will be really upset if I can't do a lot better than Imax!
If your system isn't up to it.....then we're all hosed :confused:
 
Rickster71

Rickster71

Audioholic Spartan
Since we're on the subject.
This auditorium is about 20+ minutes due east of me on the New Jersey shore.
Alex this is the one I tried to show you the last time you were down, however the building was locked.

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GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Spartan
Since we're on the subject.
This auditorium is about 20+ minutes due east of me on the New Jersey shore.
Alex this is the one I tried to show you the last time you were down, however the building was locked.
Coincedence? I think not...:D
 
GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Spartan
The Grand Budapest Hotel is on Netflix right now. I was planning to watch it, but now I think I may have to go rent the BD...
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
I got to hear the complete music to the sound track yesterday. The composer Hans Zimmer put it up in a high bit rate stream. I listened and analyzed it yesterday. I wish I had committed it to hard drive yesterday, as I went to post the link to find that Warner have blocked it.

Anyhow it is an amazing score, and I think may well have a life in the concert halls that have powerful organs. Unfortunately few do. The RAH, with the huge Father Willis organ, the Voice of Jupiter, obviously comes to mind. So does the Sydney Opera House, Meyerson Hall Dallas, the Place Des Arts in Montreal, Berlin and some others would be capable. If the rights can be obtained, I suspect this will be programmed at a Henry Wood Promenade concert in the 2016 season. This season will already be set in stone.

I can see why it is a system destroyer.

The dynamic range is huge. The 32ft stops is wonderfully recorded at all volume levels. It vibrates the room and your body, even in the soft passages. With the door of my studio open the bass pressurized the whole house and could set all levels vibrating. At no time was the sound boomy, but very clean.

In addition to the 1926 Harrison and Harrison organ, it is also scored for 34 strings, 24 woodwinds and four pianos and 60 voices . There is also extensive use of synth and computers.

Roger Sayer gives a stunning performance on this Harrison and Harrison instrument and the organ is playing during a large part of the score for extended periods. It really lets fly in the Cornfield track!

I noted enormous energy down to 20 Hz. This is as low as my spectrum meter goes. In addition Roger Sayer also makes extensive use of the 16ft, 8ft, 4ft and 2 ft principle Diapasons. One of the notable aspects of good organs is the quality of the principals. British organs are renowned for particularly fine principals. Any how this means there is extensive energy from 40 to 400 Hz. In addition there are glizandos on silvery high flute stops. Reads obviously come into play on occasions also.

There are in fact high energy levels sustained frequently from 20 Hz to 6 KHz after which energy levels drop of, but there is significant content above 10 KHz.

With the softest passages just audible I noted sustained peaks in the 96 to 100 db range at the listening position.

As noted above, I noted now boom at all. So I suspect those with high Q bass systems will get a poor result. A bass system of low Q design able to deliver high sustained spl to 20 Hz and below is required. A lot of the time there is sustained high energy from 10 Hz to 5 KHz.

My system has good output into the 12 to 20 Hz range. It rolls off from 20 Hz 3 db per octave. The lowest fundamental of a 32ft organ stop is 16 Hz.

So sealed subs will be prone to driver burnout unless they are very robust. I don't think there is a driver made that could deliver the high spl required over time without burnout on this sound track. I suspect it will also run class D amps that boast only high peak powers out of steam.

I think tweeters will be particularly vulnerable, because there is much higher energy than usual in the tweeter band pass area. I'm pretty sure this has to do with the use of the synth.

The extended peaks are also likely to tax receiver output stages and I would expect an incidence of output transistor failures.

This score did heat all my amps more than usual even the bass amps which usually run very cool. Fortunately my big bass lines have excellent efficiency and acoustic coupling, and have to be set 9.5 db below the rest of the system. I was gratified to note that even when producing a huge output in the deep bass, cone excursion was modest. I think efficiency is the key here. That is why I think small sealed units will get into trouble here.

In any event I can see clearly where systems have got into trouble and failed.

I played this audio via my Audio workstation via my RME DAC. On the first crescendo I ran out of bits, with potentially disastrous results and was lucky I did not blow a tweeter. I made adjustments and started again.

The BD is due for release March 31. Play at your own risk.

If we get more scores like this, I think it will lead to better high powered speaker systems in cinemas. The current crop are in many way inferior to the Voice of the Theater systems in use from the 1930s into the 1970s and some beyond.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
I just read a review which stated that Alexandre Desplat was the composer.:confused:
Which view? Everything I read says Hans Zimmer is the composer. In the stream I listened to and reviewed Hans Zimmer said he was the composer.

I think he was eager to gives us nuts something to chew on, but Warner thought otherwise. That was a stupid corporate move. The more buzz the better.
 
GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Spartan
Which view? Everything I read says Hans Zimmer is the composer. In the stream I listened to and reviewed Hans Zimmer said he was the composer.

I think he was eager to gives us nuts something to chew on, but Warner thought otherwise. That was a stupid corporate move. The more buzz the better.
This one:http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-Grand-Budapest-Hotel-Blu-ray/98819/

From Wikipedia:

The soundtrack is composed by Alexandre Desplat, who worked with Anderson previously on Fantastic Mr. Fox and Moonrise Kingdom. It is co-produced by Anderson with music supervisor, Randall Poster; they, too, worked together on Moonrise Kingdom. The original music is by Desplat, along with Russian folk songs and pieces composed by Öse Schuppel, Siegfried Behrend, and Vitaly Gnutov,[50] and performed by the Osipov State Russian Folk Orchestra.[51]
The 32 tracks, with orchestral elements, keyboard instruments and ambient drones, feature eclectic variations and central melodic themes. Flamenco guitars are used in "Overture: M. Gustave H" and church organs in "Last Will and Testament". A music box interlude punctuates "Up the Stairs / Down the Hall", and there are haunted-house piano stylings in "Mr. Moustafa". Harpsichords and strings are featured in the baroque piece, "Concerto for Lute and Plucked Strings I. Moderato".[52] The opening song, the Appenzell yodel "s'Rothe-Zäuerli" by Ruedi and Werner Roth, is from the Swiss folk group's Öse Schuppel's album Appenzeller Zäuerli.[53]
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
This one:http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-Grand-Budapest-Hotel-Blu-ray/98819/

From Wikipedia:

The soundtrack is composed by Alexandre Desplat, who worked with Anderson previously on Fantastic Mr. Fox and Moonrise Kingdom. It is co-produced by Anderson with music supervisor, Randall Poster; they, too, worked together on Moonrise Kingdom. The original music is by Desplat, along with Russian folk songs and pieces composed by Öse Schuppel, Siegfried Behrend, and Vitaly Gnutov,[50] and performed by the Osipov State Russian Folk Orchestra.[51]
The 32 tracks, with orchestral elements, keyboard instruments and ambient drones, feature eclectic variations and central melodic themes. Flamenco guitars are used in "Overture: M. Gustave H" and church organs in "Last Will and Testament". A music box interlude punctuates "Up the Stairs / Down the Hall", and there are haunted-house piano stylings in "Mr. Moustafa". Harpsichords and strings are featured in the baroque piece, "Concerto for Lute and Plucked Strings I. Moderato".[52] The opening song, the Appenzell yodel "s'Rothe-Zäuerli" by Ruedi and Werner Roth, is from the Swiss folk group's Öse Schuppel's album Appenzeller Zäuerli.[53]

We have our wires crossed. The review above is the review of the Soundtrack of Interstellar. I reviewed Budapest Hotel after I watched the Blu Ray a while back.
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
Saw Interstellar in 70 mm at the Navy Pair Imax in Chicago, which has a heavy duty Danley Sound Lab system. Stunning sound track, sounded terrific there. I am almost afraid to watch it on my home system, I know that it will not compare.
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
The only time I've had my "system" destroyed by music or soundtrack was from the Resident Evil: Apocalypse DVD. There's a scene at the beginning of the film where the camera (with the aid of CGI) transitions from above ground Raccoon City to an underground secure entrance to "The Hive". There is LFE present there that when my then Miller & Kreisel MX-100 push pull subwoofer decided to cook itself. The subwoofer was capable of producing meaningful output below 20Hz with significant authority but that day I get the feeling it was below 10Hz it was trying to produce and absent a subsonic filter the woofers began to move in and out violently without producing any sound and suddenly *SMACK* the voice coil former slammed against the magnet structure and wouldn't let go until the amp cooked itself. The soundtrack also caused the Carver AV-505 5 channel amplifier to shut down (no subsonic filter there either) after the woofers of the PSB Centuri 600i floorstanders' woofers flailed around a bit. The Carver recovered, the M&K did not. My theory is that the voice coil gauze had dried and the copper windings upon making contact with steel arched and slayed the amplifier. When I got the amplifier fixed the amp died again only a few days later when listening to some music at moderate levels.

Lesson learned, don't push unconditioned vintage speakers to their limits. Much like people, sure you can maintain a lot of strength as you get older, but you get more weak spots with age.
 
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