Tesla's long-delayed Model X SUV is testing in California

[Irvrobinson]

Call me dinosaur but I can't get excited over a vehicle that is dead quiet and vibrationless. I need a vehicle with visceral feedback such as exhaust notes and fumes, rumbling and vibrations. I understand the reason behind the Tesla and the need for it but I rather the ancient technology. Its just more inspiring to me.

We get that. Last night my wife and I were walking around a neighborhood where a Superbowl party was we were attending, and a Ferrari F360 (in striking red) drove by. It made noises that made us smile, until I commented that the Tesla would crush the F360 in acceleration at nearly any speed. We both agreed that made all of the noise seem rather silly and pointless.

A colleague has a Corvette C7 Z51-equipped convertible with a manual transmission. In the context of gasoline-powered cars it's actually pretty damned awesome. He demonstrated the "launch control" for me, and it sure is fun. The sport exhaust makes incredible noises, and when the car launches the rear wheels spin a little, you're thrust forward with a lot of force, and the 1-2 upshift made the car fish-tail significantly. Great fun, but punching the P85D, a car that weighs 1500 pounds more, results in much greater acceleration, and since the transmission has only one speed there's no shifting required. To be honest, the 1-2 shift that was so much fun in the C7 now seems sort of old-fashioned old-tech. The new 8-speed automatic the C7 got for 2015 improves that a lot, but to have a 5000lbs luxury sedan beat a new Corvette so soundly makes it just seem like the Vette is on the wrong technology. (Actually, battery technology isn't ready for high performance sports cars yet. Too much size and weight required, so it works on the big Model S, but would make a Corvette too big to be a tossable sports car. As fast as the C7 is, what it really does best is handle and brake.)

 

[Rickster71]

I'm on a different page, Rick. Even assuming my lead foot, hilly terrain, A/C on, the 85KW Tesla will do about 150 miles, and I can charge it overnight on any 120v outlet. Heat is derived from electric motor waste heat. My gasoline daily driver goes farther before I feel like filling it, about 200 miles (I fill up before I get down to 1/4 tank), but I can't refill it at home. Or the office, or many parking lots. As for the fast charging issue regarding battery life-span, Tesla gives you an 8-year, unlimited mile battery warranty. Not to mention that if you don't like your battery you can soon pay a modest amount to swap it for a different one.

After driving the Tesla, gasoline-powered cars seemed very old-fashioned. Seriously. My wife and I both noticed the effect, and we're long-time car people. We have his and hers sports cars. If I get the Tesla (it's a bigger "if" than my tone here is probably letting on) it'll be my daily driver, and I would fully intend to take it on 700 mile trips. Much to my surprise, there was nothing half-baked about it. I'm just reticent about the $125K part of the transaction.

One interesting maintenance issue I've found so far... the battery structure has an active liquid-filled cooling system, and the coolant needs changing every five years. The interesting part is that unless a Tesla tech does it your warranty is voided. The only other maintenance Tesla lists is a brake fluid change; that's a little different than our Porsches.

I'm also a long term car guy. I'm all for anyone buying whatever they want.
The way some new tech gets funded and politicized is what I don't like.
As soon as something gets touted as saving the future and environment for The Children, I just try to hold onto my wallet.
As far as I'm concerned, the Tesla is a luxury car and shouldn't get tax payer money.

The real problem for our environment is Overpopulation, that won;t be fixed with PV or electric cars.

A quick point if I may, regarding the cabin heat. There won't be any waste heat, when warming the car up in the parking lot at work. How do you defrost a frozen or fogged windshield?
Likewise for slowly crawling bumper to bumper traffic on the way home from work in a winter storm.

I hope your wife lets you get the car. Enjoy it, if you do.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Active liquid-filled cooling system for the battery, interesting. Again, I learn something new about electric cars, even though I'm not shopping for one.

Does this liquid cooling system ever heat the battery, helping increase output in cold weather? Or is it there to prevent only overheating (and possible fires), such as might happen during recharging?

Yes, the liquid system does both heating and cooling. Tesla claims air cooling, like the Nissan Leaf uses, is inadequate, results in hot and cold spots, and shortens battery life.

 

[Irvrobinson]

I'm also a long term car guy. I'm all for anyone buying whatever they want.
The way some new tech gets funded and politicized is what I don't like.
As soon as something gets touted as saving the future and environment for The Children, I just try to hold onto my wallet.
As far as I'm concerned, the Tesla is a luxury car and shouldn't get tax payer money.

As you can see from my post above, we're on the same page on this point.

A quick point if I may, regarding the cabin heat. There won't be any waste heat, when warming the car up in the parking lot at work. How do you defrost a frozen or fogged windshield?

Likewise for slowly crawling bumper to bumper traffic on the way home from work in a winter storm.

The Model S has a heated windshield. I'm not sure about creeping along in traffic.

I hope your wife lets you get the car. Enjoy it, if you do.

My wife isn't the problem, I am. $125K is major money to us, and only the P85D attracts me, so lesser models won't do. I'm still trying to grok what it means to invest so heavily in a technology on such a steep improvement curve. Usually I buy new cars and keep them for seven years or more. Will I still want a 2015 P85D in 2020? It seems unlikely.

 

[3db]

We get that. Last night my wife and I were walking around a neighborhood where a Superbowl party was we were attending, and a Ferrari F360 (in striking red) drove by. It made noises that made us smile, until I commented that the Tesla would crush the F360 in acceleration at nearly any speed. We both agreed that made all of the noise seem rather silly and pointless.

Thats just it.. the noise is part of Ferrari's attraction and character. The Tesla... has no character at all... Sorry. That's how I see things.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Thats just it.. the noise is part of Ferrari's attraction and character. The Tesla... has no character at all... Sorry. That's how I see things.

No sorry required. I completely get it.

 

[lsiberian]

Definitely want one of these cars.

 

[darien87]

I LOVE Teslas. Finally someone came out with a cool looking electric car. Nissan Leaf? What a Joke. That new BMW? Looks ridiculous.

My company prints a lot of the labels for Tesla. My boss has a white one. It's definitely a different driving experience. I too miss the noise of a big, powerful engine. Plus it's really how weird how it instantly starts to slow down when you take your foot off the gas, not like the slow deceleration of a regular car. Still the instant acceleration is pretty frickin cool. There's a charging station right by my house at the outlet mall in Gilroy.

If I could afford a Tesla I probably would have one.

 

[haraldo]

............ Will I still want a 2015 P85D in 2020? It seems unlikely.

Ferrari 308 GTB is a classic 30 years after it went out of production; will you be able to say the same about P85D? or any other Tesla?

The answer is obvious....

 

[mtrycrafts]

The insane mode is said to be, well insane ....

In Norway, Tesla Model S is quite affordable compared to competition, as it's without VAT and without any taxes
Which means other cars are darn bl%¤#y expensive

And you can drive in the bus lane, there are no road taxes, no tolls on any toll roads, and you can take it for free on any ferries, free charging in all public places, free parking .... anywhere

Pretty good incentives for electric cars

Yes indeed, impressive incentives. I wonder how all that would add up $$$ in a year, in 5 years of ownership.

 

[Adam]

Ferrari 308 GTB is a classic 30 years after it went out of production; will you be able to say the same about P85D? or any other Tesla?

The answer is obvious....

That's the same reason that I don't date sorority girls. I figure while they might be smokin' hot in their 20's, they won't look so good in their 50's.

Well, that, and I'm not a predator and they'd say no anyway.

As for the cars, seeing as I'll probably be dead 30 years after it goes out of production - I don't care. I just want to like it while I have it. Then I'll get another one. (Yes, yes...I know you're thinking about sorority girls again....)

 

[Irvrobinson]

Yes indeed, impressive incentives. I wonder how all that would add up $$$ in a year, in 5 years of ownership.

He already said that a Porsche Panamera, a very comparable car, is $323K. Assuming all of the other incentives are worth $2K per year they're overwhelmed by the VAT exclusion, which seems to be worth about $40-50K per year for five years. IMO, Norway is just as dumb as we are, subsidizing luxury cars. Of course, they also hunt 720+ whales per year.

 

[haraldo]

He already said that a Porsche Panamera, a very comparable car, is $323K. Assuming all of the other incentives are worth $2K per year they're overwhelmed by the VAT exclusion, which seems to be worth about $40-50K per year for five years. IMO, Norway is just as dumb as we are, subsidizing luxury cars. Of course, they also hunt 720+ whales per year.

Government here is at least as dumb as everywhere else..... I'm not stating anything else .... other than some incentives they're simply killing us with taxes, and even taxes on taxes ...... Name another country that has 200+ % tax on a car!

Whales is good food, we quite often eat minky whale and I can recommend this

 

[KEW]

I agree that it seems like corporate welfare to give incentives for a luxury car like this.

However, if you know a little about Tesla and its founder Elon Munsk, I can't get too upset. He genuinely seems to be about making the electric car a practicality in the next few years. He is a billionaire from selling his PayPal to eBay and also made a name for himself with SpaceX (first privately funded company to send a payload to the space station).

I think it is a rather brilliant strategy to make kick-ass models of electronic cars. He has certainly eradicated the most common stereotypes of boring, slow, and impractical range. The Tesla is a car to get excited about (even if I can't afford one).

I suppose he could be falsely promoting his vision of more affordable versions over the next few years to try to keep government incentives flowing; but it is hard to explain why he has made all of the Tesla patents public domain if he is about building his own empire. The only incentive I can think of for that is to make it easier for a larger corporation to jump-start electric car production. I hope American companies don't let foreign companies capture the market as it unfolds.

http://phys.org/news/2014-08-real-tesla-patent-pledge.html

On a side note. How many remember the CitiCar?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citicar

This might look kind of familiar to Haraldo

 

[3db]

The only incentive I can think of for that is to make it easier for a larger corporation to jump-start electric car production. I hope American companies don't let foreign companies capture the market as it unfolds.

You better hope that the petroleum industry doesn't squash it first.

 

[KEW]

You better hope that the petroleum industry doesn't squash it first.

I could be wrong, but I think they missed their opportunity. Between the Nissan Leaf, the Tesla, Chevy Spark EV, Fiat 500E, and the BMW i3, I think there is a lot of momentum. Who knows what other companies are about to introduce models. I'd like to see GE or Westinghouse get in the game, but it may be the auto companies will be the only players.

http://www.caranddriver.com/bmw/i3

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Saw today new ev Chevy bolt. Looks like another prius wanna be. Was sad for a second. Then noticed it's biggest competition will be tesla 3 (aka III, aka E)
Never seen its photos before. Darn. For under $40k tesla 3 will crash silly bolt or leaf any other pos made by Petroleum car makers (they probably made ugly intentionally)

 

[3db]

I could be wrong, but I think they missed their opportunity. Between the Nissan Leaf, the Tesla, Chevy Spark EV, Fiat 500E, and the BMW i3, I think there is a lot of momentum. Who knows what other companies are about to introduce models. I'd like to see GE or Westinghouse get in the game, but it may be the auto companies will be the only players.

http://www.caranddriver.com/bmw/i3

Why do they make electric cars purposely ugly? That BMW is umm ugly

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Why do they make electric cars purposely ugly? That BMW is umm ugly

My previous point exactly:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2015/02/12/general-motors-chevrolet-bolt-electric-car/23280593/

 

[Irvrobinson]

Good looks is one selling point of the Tesla Model S, however, it is a large, heavy car. Nearly 200 inches long and about 4900lbs. Oh yeah, and it costs $70K-125K. Contraptions like the i3, the Leaf, and the Bolt are trying to achieve decent range at a low cost, which implies as little battery provisioning as possible, which implies low weight, which implies small size. So you end up with a small stubby thing. It does seem like with current battery technology there is a convenient intersection in the size and cost range of the Tesla. I doubt anyone knows how to do it better right now.

I suspect the old-line automakers also style electric cars differently because surveys show that their prospective owners want their cars to look obviously different than hydrocarbon-powered cars.